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Should operations play be linked to pvp play

Yes
7 (63.6%)
No
4 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!  (Read 444 times)

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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #15 on: Aug 26, 2019, 11:42 PM »
You would only be purchasing wins if sabotage was left in game. Sabotage should be dropped from the game irrespective of anything else in my opinion.


I refer to my previous edited post. You can play boom beach for free but you can’t push anything for free.
No one is reaching 2000 vp for free
No task force is on the leaderboards for free
No one is on the top Crab leaderboard for free
And no one is Likely to be legendary x for free


Ops may have been intended as a reward (or measure)for being awesome at pvp and getting all that intel but now it is a game aspect in it’s own right.
People play just for the operations and have no interest in pvp so why cut off your nose to spite your face. Give players what they want and profit from it. Win win for everyone.


Edit still don’t see the huge difference between paying for diamonds or instant training compared to intel (other than sabotage issues which is easily fixed)


Edit again the stat figures could be set up to only record intel earned if that is important rather than lumping bought intel in with it then it would still be some sort of a measure. Running ops needs intel but defeating ops does not depend on intel (sans sabotage) so people will find their level.
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2019, 12:52 AM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline fritzelly

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Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #16 on: Aug 26, 2019, 11:57 PM »
Jaysus, I go have a beer and the whole place blows up
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Top 300 and climbing - DE and above

Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #17 on: Aug 27, 2019, 12:11 AM »
Just a friendly discussion, you should see discord... 🤪
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Offline Yallik

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #18 on: Aug 27, 2019, 04:36 AM »
To get the intel for the highest OPs it simply wasn’t possible, either practically or in reality, to get it through offence alone. The intel had to be gained from raids. Operations, therefore, were not a simple measurement of offence, but of the whole game. It incorporated map clearing and base design to obtain defensive intel.

I can't begin to address all your points. But this one stands out. Makes no sense at all. Again, why doing my performance on Aspect 1 of the game necessarily have any bearing on Aspect 2? This logic doesn't apply to any other feature of BB, only operations. You don't have to do operations to push global LB. You don't have to be Legendary on WS to be awesome at Crab. But for operations and ONLY for operations, you have to be good at PvP in order to do the other thing (ops). That's BS.

And yes, ops were for zookas. The lower bases were made so as not to demand them, but the higher bases were made so as only to be possible with them. And that's even the early "high" ops, when DE was still a big deal. I'd like to see you solo a 1.2m Dioxin with anything but zookas ...

The later bases, forget it. Only possible for zooka. None of that is by accident. 👍

Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #19 on: Aug 27, 2019, 07:34 AM »
I can't begin to address all your points. But this one stands out. Makes no sense at all. Again, why doing my performance on Aspect 1 of the game necessarily have any bearing on Aspect 2? This logic doesn't apply to any other feature of BB, only operations. You don't have to do operations to push global LB. You don't have to be Legendary on WS to be awesome at Crab. But for operations and ONLY for operations, you have to be good at PvP in order to do the other thing (ops). That's BS.

And yes, ops were for zookas. The lower bases were made so as not to demand them, but the higher bases were made so as only to be possible with them. And that's even the early "high" ops, when DE was still a big deal. I'd like to see you solo a 1.2m Dioxin with anything but zookas ...

The later bases, forget it. Only possible for zooka. None of that is by accident. 👍

Was dioxin made to be solo’d?  That people can solo it with zookas is another matter entirely. Later ops were created, and barbed wire added, to make it far more difficult for zookas as they had become the troop of choice in many instances.

If the operations were intended to be separate then SC wouldn’t have fully integrated them to the game, capturing both aspects - offence and defense.

Later additions to the game were focused on  giving people “something to do” as they were bored after map clearing :).

Pushing the LB on both operations and single person board is the same - except with operations you have an additional attack.

Why should it be easier?

Like I said, that is up to you and your TF what ops you do.

Phoenix Family

Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #20 on: Aug 27, 2019, 08:04 AM »
You would only be purchasing wins if sabotage was left in game. Sabotage should be dropped from the game irrespective of anything else in my opinion.


I refer to my previous edited post. You can play boom beach for free but you can’t push anything for free.
No one is reaching 2000 vp for free
No task force is on the leaderboards for free
No one is on the top Crab leaderboard for free
And no one is Likely to be legendary x for free


Ops may have been intended as a reward (or measure)for being awesome at pvp and getting all that intel but now it is a game aspect in it’s own right.
People play just for the operations and have no interest in pvp so why cut off your nose to spite your face. Give players what they want and profit from it. Win win for everyone.


Edit still don’t see the huge difference between paying for diamonds or instant training compared to intel (other than sabotage issues which is easily fixed)


Edit again the stat figures could be set up to only record intel earned if that is important rather than lumping bought intel in with it then it would still be some sort of a measure. Running ops needs intel but defeating ops does not depend on intel (sans sabotage) so people will find their level.

Before Instant reserves people used to do those things “for free”.

Operations are not like PvP where bases are variable. As Yallik says, practice is important. It doesn’t matter if it’s gambit on hacksaw or gambit on DE. The pathing is the same. The difference is the points.

Effectively, you are purchasing those extra points.


Edit:
Operations have always been a thing in their own right.  What has changed?
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2019, 08:41 AM by LilMiss »
Phoenix Family

Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #21 on: Aug 27, 2019, 09:29 AM »
I respect that you have experienced the game for longer and have a wealth of knowledge but they didn’t push for free, yes people played for free but unless there was a time period where diamonds were not purchasable that I am unaware of then no one pushed for free.

Yes I agree with your point that the pathing is the same but that only means that supercell should modify the ops so the pathing isn’t the same which is what op players are likely to appreciate. Everyone wants more variety in operations. It could be like tribes where supercell changes some key points in a selection of ops and resets to standard after two weeks. It isn’t like they don’t know the paths.

What I am saying is there is a significant amount of players that only want to play ops there is no reason not to accommodate that so that people can play the game they want to play and if that makes supercell more money to develop other parts of the game then that is great.

Games need to evolve, separating ops from pvp would benefit many and hinder very few.


Edit added a poll to topic 🙂 will be interesting to see what people think even with our small sample size
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2019, 10:17 AM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #22 on: Aug 27, 2019, 04:20 PM »

What I am saying is there is a significant amount of players that only want to play ops there is no reason not to accommodate that.
This thread is about making a change for a very small number of players. It needs to be considered in the context of the whole game.

If you removed the intel requirement you wouldn't need to attack PvP at all.

I have already stated the problems with MM this would create for people who wish to Play the main game.  It would also result in a flood of  resources to the game. The main game would become irrelevant.  And the decision would impact on TF.

If you just have an “op” only version then you don’t need instant training either. 

It doesn’t really matter if people vote to remove it or not. Most people would - that doesn’t mean it is a good idea!
Phoenix Family

Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #23 on: Aug 27, 2019, 05:04 PM »
I didn’t say remove the intel requirement, I suggested being able to buy intel while still maintaining the availability of “free” intel from other aspects of the game.

All “pushing” aspects of the game is for a small number of players.
Vp pushing is 1000 players above 1400vp and a global leaderboard of 50 with only 1 of those getting anything.
Crab pushing has a global leaderboard of 100 people.
Warships has a leaderboard of 500
Operation leaderboards have 50 taskforces * 4
Now you can extrapolate for local leaderboards and their cross overs with global.
Also the same players are likely to appear on several and with multiple accounts but what I am saying is it is all small numbers and players that are very dedicated and very very few of those small numbers are doing it completely free (in my opinion).

But every aspect of the game can be played independently of others (for free or not) except operations.
You have to grind out intel for operations which is very time consuming and if you are a leaderboard player then that is a huge burnout causing commitment. I know of many players who burned out and left the game due to that commitment and I am sure you know many more.
That needs to change and change in a way that benefits players and supercell.

You say the main game would become irrelevant but also you say it would only effect a small number of players. If so then the impact would be small.
If the pvp aspect of the game does not appeal to people then is forcing them to play something they dislike for hours to play a part they do like a sensible thing?

People would still play the pvp aspect because the intel is free and they could top it up with bought intel if necessary but they won’t be grinding themselves into leaving the game. Give people the option to choose.

Some people don’t attack pvp very much at all, they are perfectly happy killing npcs and events, building stuff. If you forced them to do pvp like is being done to op players would they continue to play? It is the forcing that I have come to think is unfair and unsustainable.

I don’t put this forward as a cure all just an option to be discussed, improved or rejected. Maybe used in conjunction with other suggestions.
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2019, 05:07 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline Yallik

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #24 on: Aug 27, 2019, 06:04 PM »
Was dioxin made to be solo’d?  That people can solo it with zookas is another matter entirely. Later ops were created, and barbed wire added, to make it far more difficult for zookas as they had become the troop of choice in many instances.


😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Was Dioxin made to be soloed, that's funny. Of course it was. Do you think the Magic Path on Waterloo just happens to be there by mistake?! Or the delicate paths for bases like Complex or Callisto? The Calli mortar wrap just happens by accident?

No. Obviously designed to be exactly what they are, which is a challenge to your control over your zooka movements. That's really the main innovation that makes Boom genius compared to other games, the intricate real-time control. I hate CoC for that very reason -- you just drop troops and pray. But Boom takes it a step further, giving you full control over each attack. And that's why I don't play other mobile games, which are infantile next to BB.

The offense-defense-whole-game thing is just an assumption you're making. I do not agree with you, so that's really not a good basis for your argument.

Offline Chaucer

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #25 on: Aug 27, 2019, 06:38 PM »

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Was Dioxin made to be soloed, that's funny. Of course it was. Do you think the Magic Path on Waterloo just happens to be there by mistake?! Or the delicate paths for bases like Complex or Callisto? The Calli mortar wrap just happens by accident?

No. Obviously designed to be exactly what they are, which is a challenge to your control over your zooka movements. That's really the main innovation that makes Boom genius compared to other games, the intricate real-time control. I hate CoC for that very reason -- you just drop troops and pray. But Boom takes it a step further, giving you full control over each attack. And that's why I don't play other mobile games, which are infantile next to BB.

The offense-defense-whole-game thing is just an assumption you're making. I do not agree with you, so that's really not a good basis for your argument.

Yallik, I was with you until this.

I think you're giving Supercell way too much credit! I dont think the current optimal base strategies were intended/designed in by SC.

I think they just threw together some stuff that looked good. The tricky paths, wraps, etc are all just emergent properties that players have discovered over time. Likely many of them with the early cheat software.

Offline bpepper

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #26 on: Aug 27, 2019, 07:51 PM »
Yallik, I was with you until this.

I think you're giving Supercell way too much credit! I dont think the current optimal base strategies were intended/designed in by SC.

I think they just threw together some stuff that looked good. The tricky paths, wraps, etc are all just emergent properties that players have discovered over time. Likely many of them with the early cheat software.

i 2nd that, i don't think for one second the magic paths or the wrap this/wrap that were designed by the devs, they were discovered by BB addicts, and i'm sure there are more magic this/magic that as time goes on

have you seen the reverse taunt on ransom btw?

Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #27 on: Aug 27, 2019, 08:50 PM »

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Was Dioxin made to be soloed, that's funny. Of course it was. Do you think the Magic Path on Waterloo just happens to be there by mistake?! Or the delicate paths for bases like Complex or Callisto? The Calli mortar wrap just happens by accident?

No. Obviously designed to be exactly what they are, which is a challenge to your control over your zooka movements. That's really the main innovation that makes Boom genius compared to other games, the intricate real-time control. I hate CoC for that very reason -- you just drop troops and pray. But Boom takes it a step further, giving you full control over each attack. And that's why I don't play other mobile games, which are infantile next to BB.

The offense-defense-whole-game thing is just an assumption you're making. I do not agree with you, so that's really not a good basis for your argument.

I have to agree with Chaucer’s point on this one.

The reason that so many “key” paths were found was because modding. Some of which were known as modding paths. In fact, in the old forums it was argued that modders added a lot to the game by finding paths we wouldn’t know were possible.

You disagreeing with me doesn’t make me wrong.

-operations require intel to start
-intel could be obtained by  attacking(and defeating) bases on your map.  When OPs were introduced.
-you get more intel by attacking PvP than NOC
-you get intel from raids on your base (from when OPs were introduced)
-there is a limit to the amount of intel you can get through raiding.
-you need intel from defense to make up the difference.

Is there anything in that is incorrect in the above?


I get that you are burned out. I really do. But that isn’t a good enough reason to remove intel.

Phoenix Family

Offline Orrscores

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #28 on: Aug 27, 2019, 09:00 PM »
I'm burnt out to...but not from the Intel grind😂😂😜
I'm sorry...carry on...
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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #29 on: Aug 27, 2019, 09:11 PM »
Burnt out or have you just ran out of zookas? 😉🙂
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