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Should operations play be linked to pvp play

Yes
7 (63.6%)
No
4 (36.4%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Author Topic: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!  (Read 440 times)

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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest


Intel initially existed in Boom Beach to keep players active in-game, switching up troops regularly, and either using their gems or purchasing Endless Reserves (to make Supercell money). But now we have Warships to do EXACTLY the same thing.


Ops players, especially at the competitive level, have been drowning in intel requirements for years. It creates a lot of burnout...because no one wants to play a mobile game for hours a day just in order to get one 4-minute operation hit, usually a face plant in my case.


Enough, Supercell. Give us a break. Not just for our good. For yours as well. Intel doesn’t need to be a thing anymore.

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« Last Edit: Aug 23, 2019, 05:15 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline Orrscores

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #1 on: Aug 23, 2019, 10:07 PM »
Agree 100%
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Offline Yallik

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #2 on: Aug 24, 2019, 03:58 PM »
Now if only we had a community manager to convey that message to the devs. 😂

Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #3 on: Aug 26, 2019, 02:40 PM »
I ... disagree.

Clearing your map is key to the game. Not everyone likes warships, but more fundamental to that is the MM mechanism.


The MM is designed on the basis that people will be attacking each other. You rise higher in VP and get smashed by others knocking you down.  The second self balancing part of the mechanism is broken as people don’t attack and clear their map fully... or at all making dropping VP hard.

For many people collecting their daily boat and clearing NPC’s with the occasional PvP is probably enough. Ops are infrequent for many players, often low level for the size of their OPs.

I’d rather better ways to manage Intel collection. There is a large gap in Vp between getting 3 Intel and 4 intel - this could be  reduced making it easier on everyone.

There needs to be a positive  association with map clearing, not just  as a chore. They could constantly add an extra intel for every 5 PvP collected. They could add intel to gearheart...

They could introduce a “troop reserve” like with warships makes it easier to map clear and switch out troops. It’s not as convenient as Instant training, which still has its place but will engage  infrequent players.
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Offline Yallik

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #4 on: Aug 26, 2019, 04:11 PM »
Not to be rude, but I call rubbish.

Why does clearing maps need to be integral to the game? There's no good reason. Back in the day, as I explained in the video, there WAS a reason. But Boom was a different game back in those days, way more limited in scope. There were fewer things to do, so Supercell needed to be able to ensure themselves a profit. But now we have new things like Warships and monthly Crab events, not just PvP & ops. The old rationales for retaining the intel feature no longer apply in the same way they used to.

Even if I granted that PvP is central to the game, which I don't, I don't agree that map clearing needs to be enforced on people. You describe a weird scenario in which the rest of us are being forced to keep getting VP in order that the VP pushers have people to beat. First of all, that doesn't make sense. Global VP is relative. The current leader is over 2200 VP, but in the past the absolute number was much lower. Doesn't matter. Global #1 is still global #1  whether his/her VP is at 1500 or 2200. It only matters that there is a heap and someone is on top of it: you still get your fancy name badge. So there will always be something for the VP crowd to keep on doing. MM will still work just fine.

Second of all, why should the rest of us have to play PvP in order to satisfy the VP crowd? In no other aspect of the game does that hold true. Operations players don't have to play Warships if they (I 😂) don't want and vice versa. VP players don't have to participate in either of those if they don't want. You can do Crab or not do Crab, that's left to your discretion. You can do daily events or not, up to you. Do you see what I'm saying? There is no crossover enforced in these other aspects of the game, but only for operations. So why do the devs continue to torture ops players with map clearing for intel?

And there IS a positive association with map clearing -- among VP pushers. But why are the rest of us being FORCED to care about map clearing if we don't give a shit about VP?

In addition, there are other inducements to clear your map, if you are so inclined. Resources, crystals, etc. Again, beyond those, why should I have to care if I don't want to?!

However, you are completely right that SC could also do other things to alleviate the intel problem, especially introducing a bunch more of it into the game or adding the troop reserve you describe. But that, to me, is missing all of the points I just made.⬆
« Last Edit: Aug 26, 2019, 04:13 PM by Yallik »

Offline Brez

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #5 on: Aug 26, 2019, 05:50 PM »
What if someone chooses to not participate in Warships?




Dunno what TF's you are referring to that are drowning in Intel but the TF I'm in has very relaxed players and we are by far "drowning" in Intel.


If you have very very active players then sure you would be maxed out a majority of the time but what about the casual players above and beyond the players that don't want to participate in Warships such as me.


I don't get any intel?


I don't clear my map all the time in fact it's a rarity as well.



« Last Edit: Aug 26, 2019, 05:59 PM by Brez »

Offline Chaucer

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #6 on: Aug 26, 2019, 05:52 PM »
I think I agree with both Yallik and LilMiss.

PvP does still seem to be central to the game in Supercells eyes. All the other parts that have been added (Ops, Crab, warship) give rewards that are only useful to PvP.
However, intel does still seem to be unique in that it is earned in all other parts of the game and can only be used in Ops.
Making the base game more interesting would be a much more effective mechanism to keep people playing than forcing the Op playing group to keep grinding.

Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #7 on: Aug 26, 2019, 06:01 PM »
If money is the issue (and when is it not?🤪) then why not buy intel in the same way as diamonds. Or replace intel with diamonds? Although I think the former would be my preference.
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Offline Yallik

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #8 on: Aug 26, 2019, 07:57 PM »
Brez, sorry for the confusion. I'm not talking about task forces drowning IN intel, although I wish I were. I'm talking about task forces drowning BECAUSE OF intel. In fact, the way the current system is set up, the more you like operations, and the more seriously you take them, the more intel is a punishment. If you get good enough to want to be on the leaderboard somewhere, you have to carry an intel load for two or three people (or more). Ridiculous.

Also, I choose not to participate in Warships. Hi, I'm that guy.👋

And that's my choice. I haven't found it to beany impediment whatsoever. I continue to play the features of the game that I enjoy. I don't even open Warships except by mistake ... and I don't subsequently get punished in some other area of the game.

Be cool if operations were that way, too. 👍

Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #9 on: Aug 26, 2019, 10:14 PM »
You can call it rubbish if you want.

However,

“You describe a weird scenario in which the rest of us are being forced to keep getting VP in order that the VP pushers have people to beat“

That may be your interpretation of what I said, but I didn’t mention VP pushing. I said MM.

All of those things you describe.... the crab, warships, you are limited by HQ, either directly or indirectly. , the actual amount of resources you get on warships are dependent on your VP.

The game doesn’t care if you are playing and clearing your map or not. You still land on other people’s maps and hamper their progress.

Furthermore people who VP push or play warships or play for the crab only do not have to join a TF. You only need to be in a TF if you want to do operations.

The amount of intel needed is determined by which OP the TF wishes to start - that is not something which SC demands.

CalmZyth  did an experiment after these were added and he estimated that the highest amount of intel you can obtain through offence alone was 120 a week. 

After reflecting on the intel issue for over a year through various changes I came to a conclusion, or as I put it at the time “changed my mind”  😆

To get the intel for the highest OPs it simply wasn’t possible, either practically or in reality, to get it through offence alone. The intel had to be gained from raids. Operations, therefore, were not a simple measurement of offence, but of the whole game. It incorporated map clearing and base design to obtain defensive intel.

But you can only get that intel if people attack you. As I said, the game was designed for people to attack PvP.

What I would like  is the thresholds amended to get extra intel from raids.  The amount of troops destroyed should be slightly lower to get  2 intel, and the % chance to get a second intel should be set at lower thresholds, with a possible increase in %. Sometimes I’ve been attacked as little as twice a day - it’s  not a reliable source of intel until you are higher in the game.

I’ve played the game for way too long.as well as been on the forums.  When the intel increase happened many people were happy, but it didn’t have the desired result for many TF.  The intel stayed the same. People just logged in, collected daily chest,  VP chest and logged off. When the destroy button came in, people could just hit that a few times. Chat slows down, as do replays and friendly challenges. With people logging in just to collect a couple boats it is easy to forget op start times.

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Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #10 on: Aug 26, 2019, 10:56 PM »
I have watched your video.

You make a few assumptions which I believe are incorrect. You stated that OPs were designed for Zookas - I cannot recall ever seeing that by SC. It is correct to say that the changes to make bases harder have effectively made zookas the best option, income cases only option.  It is also true to say that Supercell have introduced changes (barbed wire) and new bases specifically to counter zookas.  But When ops were conceived they were not for zookas.

When SC introduced changes to intel to make it easier (daily chest, VP chest, intel on hammerman)  It seemed easy. However, at the time a 10 man was  fox /strong.  It became CP, then CC and then DE with the Heroes update.

But was it ever the intention of SC that people be completing these  high Ops daily in each TF? To have TF  on the LB that  have 0% success? It seems rather odd. Particularly when the 25 /50 man TF depended on the 100% success rate. Maybe this ought to be rethought.

Operations were an add on to the game as you stated. But it was never to replace it. It was to create a mechanism to get people playing - and keep them playing.  The teams apply the pressure for intel- not SC, it’s self imposed. 

Hopping was rather late to the game, whilst I don’t have an issue with hopping, I can’t help having sympathy for those with opposite views.  Is the point   to have multiple goes to get better  - or to show your skill with limited practice?


I am sympathetic. I was in a TF where we stayed on the 10 man for over a year doing DE.  It is relentless, but then so is pushing VP. It requires the same amount of work putting into it.

And, you are missing out on 3 intel - 21 a week by not playing WS. 

And no, I’m not perfect at Intel collection, neut can tell you that, and that we do struggle from time to time doing lower ops, particularly when we  have lost a player.






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Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #11 on: Aug 26, 2019, 11:03 PM »
If money is the issue (and when is it not?🤪) then why not buy intel in the same way as diamonds. Or replace intel with diamonds? Although I think the former would be my preference.

SC has made it clear that they don’t want people to have to pay to play their games.

Whilst there is a slight change with the trader... you have to play boom beach to get the best out of it.  Intel, power stones, trader tickets and so on.

If you add buying intel the people on the LB are going to be those who pay the most. World citizen warned about the impact on instant training on the global LB and it becoming harder for free to play payers from obtaining it. Though it probably made it overall cheaper.

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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #12 on: Aug 26, 2019, 11:11 PM »
Interesting takes on this 👍🙂


People already pay to win either via supercell or other avenues.

Diamonds are purchased but available in game freely
Intel could be purchased and is available for free in game
No difference

Instant training definitely made pushing vp cheaper and playing and pushing Warships needs no money at all. In fact Warships seems to me to hurt all other parts of boom beach once you are maxed on your main base. It is completely separate from all other aspects of the game once maxed and completely free. Potentially a financial drain. I guess it is a (loss) leading product to entice people into enjoying the rest of the game and hopefully paying.


Edit realised you probably can’t push on Warships for free just play much like the rest of Boom beach.  You can play boom beach for free but if you want to push any aspect of it then you have to pay...
« Last Edit: Aug 26, 2019, 11:41 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #13 on: Aug 26, 2019, 11:24 PM »
I think I agree with both Yallik and LilMiss.

PvP does still seem to be central to the game in Supercells eyes. All the other parts that have been added (Ops, Crab, warship) give rewards that are only useful to PvP.
However, intel does still seem to be unique in that it is earned in all other parts of the game and can only be used in Ops.
Making the base game more interesting would be a much more effective mechanism to keep people playing than forcing the Op playing group to keep grinding.


I agree that the main game is stale and needs some changes.

It feels that all of the changes are designed to increase troop loss and therefore you have to wait longer, or pay. 

Rotating protos, the tribes are great fun... but it can affect whether or not someone actually attacks you.... and how many troops you can kill with no ice. And the extra proto troops can make getting intel on defense harder.

I’m not sure what the solution is at this point.  when they introduced the VP chest I remember thinking  that they should have gone along the lines of “mastermind’s quests” from  the IFR  in clash of clans. But they didn’t do anything ‘new’.

There is so much to do going through the game now it’s not like it was when I started off 4(?) maybe 5 years ago.

Warships is SC’s way of saying that they can’t really add anything new to the main game,  they are just giving people another option to continue playing - and spending out on the IR each month. It becomes better “value” if you get to spend it on map clearing, ops, crab and warships.


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Offline LilMiss

Re: Yallik - 22 aug 2019 - Why Do We Still Have Intel?!?!
« Reply #14 on: Aug 26, 2019, 11:38 PM »
Interesting takes on this 👍🙂


People already pay to win either via supercell or other avenues.

Diamonds are purchased but available in game freely
Intel could be purchased and is available for free in game
No difference

There is a huge difference.

The boom team were, and probably still are, the team closest to the SC ideal. People paying because they want to - not because they have to.  To quote Rowman - the only thing you can purchase is time. 

With intel, you’d be purchasing a win.

OPs are intended to be a measure of the game as a whole.
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