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Should no shield gen cycles be announced in advance?

Yes
4 (28.6%)
No
10 (71.4%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Author Topic: Please stop announcing when there won't be shields  (Read 262 times)

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Offline BB_gsvnp

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #15 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
Announcing all or none would be fair.
 
 For players who are at a level where TMeds are OP, it would be good to announce when Grapplers/Doom Cannons are going to disappear!
 For players who use hotpots for hammerman, announce when Hotpots/DA are going to disappear!
 For players who think warriors are OP, announce when SkyShields/Microwa'r are going to disappear!
 For players who think smoky attacks are OP, announce when SIMO/SkyShields are going to disappear!
 
 and so on.. Also,
 
 For players who are pushing for LB's, announce when SG's are going to disappear.

Offline BB_superwang

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #16 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
I support to keep secret of new circles.

Offline BB_superwang

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #17 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
hello.I have one question which is....Have you finished your holidays? There are some problems you are supposed to solve. Thank you.
 
    
       
          
                        
                Quote Originally Posted by Drew[Supercell]                 View Post              
             
When we first chose to change the Prototype Cycles on a weekly basis, removing Shield Generators unannounced was met by backlash by the Community for not being advertised beforehand.
 
 One of the main criticisms was that you should be able to plan in advance (particularly for SG's), as SG's are a staple of most player bases and are usually always in Proto cycles.
 
 So that's some thoughts behind why I've chosen to promote the schedule of when SG's won't be available. If this should extend to all Prototypes being announced is yet to be decided.
                  
    
 

Offline launcher

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #18 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
+1 for keeping it random and secret.

Offline BB_GBbb

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #19 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
yes, random and no announcement. If you are going to announce then you may as well just remove the limited availability and make every proto available like it used to be!
 And also, I feel as someone already stated - the announcement of sgs being omitted just comes across as favouritism. You never announced to that grapplers would be unavailable so often!

Offline BB_TheCrowsNest

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #20 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
Thanks for the response Drew, appreciated.
 
 You can’t win, no matter what you do people will object however...
 If you announce in advance a “random” event that will directly advantage one group of players then that is on you.
 If a certain group of players are upset that they are not getting that advantage then that is on them.
 
 If you don’t announce then players that use shields will just plan to assume the shields will not appear on the next cycle every week, yes it will use a bit more protoparts but that is their choice and a cost they have to decide is worthwhile or not.
 
 You could just always keep the shield generators in the cycle in the interests of general game balance but I prefer adversity and good planning in separating players skills rather than same old same old. If players are putting down shield generators by rote without thought then shaking things up is a good thing.
 
 Keep up the good work, loving the game

Offline BB_Spin7

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #21 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
Yes totally agree good job SC and u will never please everyone.
 
 SG should not be immune from rotation out of weekly cycles and agree to the forwarning on that particular prototype because it is the most common type used.

Offline MikeCT1020

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #22 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
    
       
          
                        
                Quote Originally Posted by Drew[Supercell]                 View Post              
             
When we first chose to change the Prototype Cycles on a weekly basis, removing Shield Generators unannounced was met by backlash by the Community for not being advertised beforehand.
 
  You yourself stated on this forum that there would be weeks when there would be no shield generators. True, you didn’t give dates, but the warning was given.
 
  One of the main criticisms was that you should be able to plan in advance (particularly for SG's), as SG's are a staple of most player bases and are usually always in Proto cycles.
 
  They can plan in advance. Everyone knows when the prototype cycle resets.
 
  So that's some thoughts behind why I've chosen to promote the schedule of when SG's won't be available. If this should extend to all Prototypes being announced is yet to be decided.
 
  All or none. People who want shield generators shouldn’t be catered to.  Either extend it to all protos or don’t give any notice at all. I like hot pots because they work well against Hammerman yet I don’t get any warning when they won’t be available.
                  
    
 
Personally, I like the way the cycle makes you adapt. My understanding is that part of the reason for having the cycle and only having 6 available at any time was to get people to adapt and try different things. If the leaderboard players truly are the best in the world they should show it by planning and adapting to those times when the shield generator is not available. If you?re taking votes, mine is to keep it the way it is now but not announce when we won?t have shield generators available. If you do decide to announce what?s coming, try having 3 weeks in a row without shield generators sometime to make sure they are out of the game at some point.

Offline BB_nuttyrat

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #23 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
    
       
          
                        
                Quote Originally Posted by Mikect1020                 View Post              
             
Personally, I like the way the cycle makes you adapt. My understanding is that part of the reason for having the cycle and only having 6 available at any time was to get people to adapt and try different things. If the leaderboard players truly are the best in the world they should show it by planning and adapting to those times when the shield generator is not available. If you’re taking votes, mine is to keep it the way it is now but not announce when we won’t have shield generators available. If you do decide to announce what’s coming, try having 3 weeks in a row without shield generators sometime to make sure they are out of the game at some point.
                  
    
 
Rightly said.
  3 weeks min is required..that too only gives 3 days of no SG in 3 weeks ( considering it lasts for 9 days).
  Basically, announcing in advance just utilizes the spare diamonds that are not so useful nowadays.
  I say go 1 month without SG

Offline LilMiss

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #24 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
    
       
          
                        
                Quote Originally Posted by Drew[Supercell]                 View Post              
             
When we first chose to change the Prototype Cycles on a weekly basis, removing Shield Generators unannounced was met by backlash by the Community for not being advertised beforehand.
 
 One of the main criticisms was that you should be able to plan in advance (particularly for SG's), as SG's are a staple of most player bases and are usually always in Proto cycles.
 
 So that's some thoughts behind why I've chosen to promote the schedule of when SG's won't be available. If this should extend to all Prototypes being announced is yet to be decided.
                  
    
 
Which means that, effectively, you have nerfed the less common, least used, proto’s.
 
 I have to wonder what was was the reason for removing any proto’s at all.. if people are going to get advanced warning  they will continue to be the most used...  variety hasn’t been achieved, it’s unlikely that the new protos will be chosen and used. Why not just leave them in every cycle, and, if that is the case why not leave all protos in?
 
 
 
 sg’s aren’t the only protos, and some of us don’t use them at all.  for me it’s the DA and Lb as it gets me some intel. Dropping 3 protos to try to ensure coverage for periods when either of those may be missing  is problematic.  A 3rd proto I have found reduced intel, either people avoid attacking... or they are more likely to hit when boosted to reduce troop loss. It is my experience anyway and I need intel for OPs.  Also, my hammerman base is designed with the Lb / DA combo in mind. I still have to fiddle with the base, it’s not a walk in the park.... but by removing, particularly the DA, I have been significantly disadvantaged.
 
 I’ve not always been able to plan such things in advance on the off chance that this week there’s may be no DA.
 
 And what of of those who are trying to defend against Tmed?  For the mid levels this can be a real problem. It’s been a long time since I’ve been there, but given that they won’t have unlocked  mark III for all the protos, and that the Mark I protos now only last 5 days and that they have a more limited opportunity to obtain proto parts..... no advance notice of anything can be problematic.
 
 
 And I’m missing the ‘backlash’ to be honest with you. I can’t recall a major meltdown on the forum, or many copy n pastes of elsewhere. And, let’s be honest, sgs were one of the last (last one? ) to be missing for two weeks. It was hardly surprising. People may have hoped it wasn’t happening...or convinced themselves that you wouldn’t remove it. But it wasn’t unannounced. No exception was made for sgs.
 
 That it is is the most used doesn’t mean that it should be treated in a more favourable manner. Far from it. It should be far more variable than the others.,
Phoenix Family

Offline MikeCT1020

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #25 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
    
       
          
                        
                Quote Originally Posted by Lloopy14                 View Post              
             
Which means that, effectively, you have nerfed the less common, least used, proto’s.
 
  I have to wonder what was was the reason for removing any proto’s at all.. if people are going to get advanced warning  they will continue to be the most used...  variety hasn’t been achieved, it’s unlikely that the new protos will be chosen and used. Why not just leave them in every cycle, and, if that is the case why not leave all protos in?
 
 
 
  sg’s aren’t the only protos, and some of us don’t use them at all.  for me it’s the DA and Lb as it gets me some intel. Dropping 3 protos to try to ensure coverage for periods when either of those may be missing  is problematic.  A 3rd proto I have found reduced intel, either people avoid attacking... or they are more likely to hit when boosted to reduce troop loss. It is my experience anyway and I need intel for OPs.  Also, my hammerman base is designed with the Lb / DA combo in mind. I still have to fiddle with the base, it’s not a walk in the park.... but by removing, particularly the DA, I have been significantly disadvantaged.
 
  I’ve not always been able to plan such things in advance on the off chance that this week there’s may be no DA.
 
  And what of of those who are trying to defend against Tmed?  For the mid levels this can be a real problem. It’s been a long time since I’ve been there, but given that they won’t have unlocked  mark III for all the protos, and that the Mark I protos now only last 5 days and that they have a more limited opportunity to obtain proto parts..... no advance notice of anything can be problematic.
 
 
  And I’m missing the ‘backlash’ to be honest with you. I can’t recall a major meltdown on the forum, or many copy n pastes of elsewhere. And, let’s be honest, sgs were one of the last (last one? ) to be missing for two weeks. It was hardly surprising. People may have hoped it wasn’t happening...or convinced themselves that you wouldn’t remove it. But it wasn’t unannounced. No exception was made for sgs.
 
  That it is is the most used doesn’t mean that it should be treated in a more favourable manner. Far from it. It should be far more variable than the others.,
                  
    
 
Some players did have a meltdown the first time shield generators weren?t available. There were even rumors some leaderboard people were beaching their HQs in protest as a result. Another rumor was they were beaching them while online to tick people off when they see the beached HQ but couldn?t attack. I seem to recall, and I could be wrong about this, that the first time shield generators weren?t available it coincided with rainmakers being available and maybe even gunboat cryobombs.

Offline BB_Arghacceptmyname

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #26 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
    
       
          
                        
                Quote Originally Posted by Mikect1020                 View Post              
             
Some players did have a meltdown the first time shield generators weren’t available. There were even rumors some leaderboard people were beaching their HQs in protest as a result. Another rumor was they were beaching them while online to tick people off when they see the beached HQ but couldn’t attack. I seem to recall, and I could be wrong about this, that the first time shield generators weren’t available it coincided with rainmakers being available and maybe even gunboat cryobombs.
                  
    
 
I promised myself I wasn't going to wade in, but hey it's a good thread.
 
 Yah Mike I think the first time they weren't available was at the same time as rainmakers and the tribal bonus that let you accumulate a billion GBE. Defence was totally impossible. You could beat well-designed 7-boosty ice bases with just a few unboosted attack statues. Frankly I'm not too sure having the shields available then would have even helped much. It was a bit ridiculous, and Drew acknowledged that and we've never tipped that far into pro-offence since.
 
 (I complained. Hence the newish avatar as I got tired of being called an ice princess. Now I am one!)
 
  I don't really understand the whole cycle thing. Every time a new toy (offensive or defensive) gets introduced, people come up with creative ways to use them and the general variety of bases and attack modes increases, leading to more challenges and more fun for most folks except for those who feel that they have an ordained right to beat every base unboosted with the only troops they ever use. I don't understand why they aren't all available. I feel that SC is drastically underestimating the creativity of folks, and this includes the top end of VP, regarding what they may come up with in combos and base designs if they had every proto to choose from. You could argue that 3-6 months down the way some particular layout might emerge as the proven best, and then it will get boring because everyone adopts it, but by then there could be more options on the way.
 
 With all of that being said, I am in favour of the advanced notice. Since I can't be assured of having every weapon available to experiment with, and since I do depend on attaining some defends, I appreciate the ability to plan ahead and keep a sg on my map during the sg drought. It involves some negatives, you lose proto parts from weapons that you dig up early, and likely will spend dimes to get things just right, so I'd imagine SC are happy with that reaction.
 
 I thoroughly agree with the OP though, if you are committed to the cycle SC then post the WHOLE thing in advance, don't focus on one stupid proto weapon.  
 
 As a thought experiment: imagine a few new offensive troops get introduced. Nothing in the new troops approaches the ability of zookas to do damage. Then they introduce an offensive cycle and suddenly zookas aren't available for a week unless you do something ahead of time (store them in a troop shed?? I dunno...) But they don't tell you when zookas will be eliminated, so you have to guess. Result would be a total revolt from OPs players, 100x worse than Zookagate. And rightly so.

Offline MinionsWeb

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Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #27 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
Hahahahahaaaa
 Ice princess....I am soooooo going to have to harangue you.
 Thanks argh
 Chortle
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Offline DeepMindAlphaZero

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #28 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
I think the main "backlash" is from the VP pushing part of our community. This may sound obvious, but let me explain some obvious stuff that leads to a conclusion.
 
 So after you max out your base, you have 3 ways of "pushing" (otherwise you are here casually, which is ok, but minute details dont affect you as much). These are VP pushing, TF LB Pushing, and Crab Pushing. Each kind has its own unique properties, but what is unique about VP pushing is it requires defenses care. Even if I forgo defense (statues, ptps, and layout quality) on the other 2, I theoretically have the ability to make LBs no problem. The only possible factor being some diamonds and intel, but I will say it until the day I die, use Sol's trap base for excellent/best results.
 
 I have a Tf LB setup on statues (GBE and TD only). The entire point of blue statues is to defend, while being able to attack via maxing out your skill. Skill on attacking is per person, but there is only so much a base can do to defend you. I have often stated that without SGs, I am confident in my ability to take out these bases via smokey attacks. WITH SGS, these players at the top can still beat each other, and as you lower defensive power to fight off combos, lower skilled and lower powered players gain the ability to beat these bases as well. If you take away Sgs, you temporarily nullify the use of ICE. SIMOS, Microwavers, and SSs can help, but they just dont hold the weight of the SG.
 
 All this said, LB and Crab players aren't negatively affected by this gain of intel, while VP players indeed benefit. I suspect (from my first sentence) since non-VP players dont care as much, there was little positive feedback when compared to the negative VP pusher's feedback, thus the "votes" are anti-take away Sgs without warning. When you consider it from this point of view, it becomes clear that SC made the right move warning about no SGs.
 
 Now, to the argument of wanting to make players vary strategies, fair enough, BUT you will often notice SC takes away Sgs for 2 week periods (14 days), meaning that at least one SG will be lost. The math being I can buy 2 SGs last second (via diamonds) and make one for later. This means after 9 days you will lose both, but can replace 1. Thus a player will lose 1 SG for at least 5 days, which IMHO is very fair to these players.
 
 Now I should address Lloopy's point and say, while you are right, having or lacking a or a few ptps dosent break the game for your LB push. WORST CASE is you gain less intel/diamonds from defends, but I can say with NO ptps and no ice, I can easily pass 100 intel per week, so this is why other defenses arnt necessarily as important as the SG. Now would I oppose seeing in advance the entire cycle? I wouldn't mind, but that is another topic and another decision that SC seems to be considering.
 
 Cheers!

Offline BB_TheCrowsNest

Please stop announcing when there won't be shields
« Reply #29 on: Aug 20, 2018, 11:40 PM »
Good post deepmindalphazero and I agree with everything except your conclusion
 
 Planning plays a big part in this game whether it is what to build, where to hit, what to shock, when to shock it, when to boost, just everything is planned and your fingers implement your plan.
 There are no warnings, clues or specific advice in game(loading screen excepted but that is for new players). You have to work it out and make your decisions.
 I can think of no other time other than these shield gen announcements where we are directly told what we should do. Why do it?
 Players that prepare will do well, players that do not will find it harder.
 
 I don’t want people using shield generators to be punished, just treated the same as everyone else.
 
 If people are upset because shields gens disappear then that is because they did not plan for that eventuality.
 I have absolute faith that players can plan, obviously the higher up the leaderboard you are the better you are at planning, we do not need this warning.
 
 A failure to plan is my failure, supercell does not need to be responsible for my mistakes or hold my hand.
 
 In summary we don’t need this anomalous announcement, we can handle it.