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Poll

How would you realistically want the new CM to interact with the forum?

Read and maybe post personally (like discord)
12 (60%)
Read and post officially (like reddit)
5 (25%)
Just read
0 (0%)
Nothing
3 (15%)
Something else
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Author Topic: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱  (Read 695 times)

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Offline CaptNasty

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #15 on: Dec 20, 2018, 12:01 PM »
His introduction said it all IMO.  He did not mention this forum.  Let’s be honest for just a moment. As for this narrative the CMs have crafted that including the forum as a conduit is too much work, I am calling BS.  So 6 channels in just right but 7 is too much?  I do not buy it.  I think that the real issue the CMs have with forums is related to the very nature of forums. 

Think about all of the official channels.  Communications are very short lived.  It is very time consuming to go back in history.  Moderators and wanna be mods push back on people bringing up topics that are in the past and guide the conversation in the direction they want it to go.  Their chosen modes of communication all involve platforms that are conducive to short lived, tactical discussion.  I think this limits backlash and prevents a topic from taking on a life of its own.

Now consider a forum.  Topics are isolated in threads.  They are easy to peruse.  Threads can have dozens, even hundreds of responses over an extended period of time.  Many threads are running simultaneously and in parrallel.  Threads can take on a life of their own... for better or worse.  It takes time for a thread to lose visibility.  I think this makes forums less appealing to thin skinned types who want nothing but positive affirmation and want to control the narrative: aka a feedback loop. 

SC and the CMs have uttered the right “magical incantations”: “we want to hear alternative views”, “we are open to constructive criticism”, “we welcome all feedback”, etc.  But their actions have been inconsistent with their words.  Actions DO speak louder than words, they reveal true intent.  Especially with Drew.  These guys have tolerated feedback, they did not view it as “a gift”.  They have ignored, brushed off, or attacked feedback that they did not like.

The role of community manager is meant to represent the company to the game community, not vice versa.  Their paycheck comes from and as a result their loyalty is to the company.  We are merely the masses whom they seek to harvest money from.

To this talk of “being positive” I say this:  “you can put lipstick on a pig and all you have is a pig wearing lipstick.  It is still just a pig”.  Or my favorite: “You can’t polish a turd”.  Positivity has it’s place when you are navigating unknowns or you are dealing with honest actors.  Once lines are drawn or if dealing with persons with power and a set agenda, blind positivity does nothing but put you at a disadvantage.  The lines have been drawn in this case and the CMs have power and an agenda in regards to the forum and feedback IMO.  Members of this forum can decide to play nice with people who have no intent of playing nice and it will change nothing or FMs can drop the facade and accept and acknowledge reality... and this too will change nothing.  But acceptance is the first step toward healing.  Not saying to bash SC, but for the love of god, stop trying to put lipstick on THIS pig.    The decision is done and a new CM will change nothing.

This forum needs to accept and move past this.  It is a closed chapter in an old book.  At this point the continued rehashing of this topic is nothing more than sour grapes.  We need to heal.
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2018, 01:32 PM by CaptNasty »

Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #16 on: Dec 20, 2018, 05:32 PM »
Several interesting points 👍 so I will break it down 🙂

Quote
His introduction said it all IMO.  He did not mention this forum.  Let’s be honest for just a moment. As for this narrative the CMs have crafted that including the forum as a conduit is too much work, I am calling BS.  So 6 channels in just right but 7 is too much?  I do not buy it.  I think that the real issue the CMs have with forums is related to the very nature of forums.


Agreed regarding introduction, he was very specific and clear where his attention is going to be focused...not here. Interestingly in a recent interview drew described the boom beach community as laid back in comparison to the clash Royale community. Not a description usually used to describe a challenging or time consuming situation.


Quote
Think about all of the official channels.  Communications are very short lived.  It is very time consuming to go back in history.  Moderators and wanna be mods push back on people bringing up topics that are in the past and guide the conversation in the direction they want it to go.  Their chosen modes of communication all involve platforms that are conducive to short lived, tactical discussion.  I think this limits backlash and prevents a topic from taking on a life of its own.


Agreed.


Quote
Now consider a forum.  Topics are isolated in threads.  They are easy to peruse.  Threads can have dozens, even hundreds of responses over an extended period of time.  Many threads are running simultaneously and in parrallel.  Threads can take on a life of their own... for better or worse.  It takes time for a thread to lose visibility.  I think this makes forums less appealing to thin skinned types who want nothing but positive affirmation and want to control the narrative: aka a feedback loop.


Agreed.


Quote
SC and the CMs have uttered the right “magical incantations”: “we want to hear alternative views”, “we are open to constructive criticism”, “we welcome all feedback”, etc.  But their actions have been inconsistent with their words.  Actions DO speak louder than words, they reveal true intent.  Especially with Drew.  These guys have tolerated feedback, they did not view it as “a gift”.  They have ignored, brushed off, or attacked feedback that they did not like.


Agreed.



Quote
The role of community manager is meant to represent the company to the game community, not vice versa.  Their paycheck comes from and as a result their loyalty is to the company.  We are merely the masses whom they seek to harvest money from.


Agreed.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people think this is a game. It isn’t, it is a business whose only interests are making money and not spending money unless it makes them more money.

It used to be fashionable to “engage” with your customers but what does it gain the business to do so? What does any of these social platforms do for the business and their core aim of making money?
A business needs to control how their product is being talked about. Not all publicity is good (profitable) publicity unlike the saying which was probably made up by a bad publicist to a stupid client.

The forum was a way to “engage” with customers that someone who didn’t understand what they were doing thought they could look good from and maybe get another rung up the corporate ladder. Everyone was doing it but almost all these corporate forums degenerate into a toxic mess from a business point of view. However new improved ways to “engage” with your customers appear like discord, Facebook etc which allows the company to better control how their product is being talked about and do it cheaper and for less work. So the forums close down or become controlled wastelands (then close down).

They are great for fans though, make no mistake from a non business perspective forums are top for all the reasons they are bad for business and you touched upon above.

Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, discord are all preferable for their fluidity which allows the business to control its message, bury its skeletons and continue to look like they care without fear of contradiction.



Quote
To this talk of “being positive” I say this:  “you can put lipstick on a pig and all you have is a pig wearing lipstick.  It is still just a pig”.  Or my favorite: “You can’t polish a turd”.  Positivity has it’s place when you are navigating unknowns or you are dealing with honest actors.  Once lines are drawn or if dealing with persons with power and a set agenda, blind positivity does nothing but put you at a disadvantage.  The lines have been drawn in this case and the CMs have power and an agenda in regards to the forum and feedback IMO.  Members of this forum can decide to play nice with people who have no intent of playing nice and it will change nothing or FMs can drop the facade and accept and acknowledge reality... and this too will change nothing.  But acceptance is the first step toward healing.  Not saying to bash SC, but for the love of god, stop trying to put lipstick on THIS pig.    The decision is done and a new CM will change nothing.


I don’t agree but I don’t disagree either. As Andromeda has said on the discord rules thread, the people on this forum have provided more useful information to players than any community manager. Those people have influenced the game by influencing the people reading their information on this forum. If I have to put lipstick on a pig and kiss it to get the attention this information deserves then fine by me. I want players and the community manager to read what is being said and be influenced by it directly or more likely indirectly.

If the supercell community manager never posts here but reads what is said then we have achieved something. Negativity will not do that. Sugar is better than a stick. If we are useful and positive then we are more likely to get a game we enjoy.

While we can easily say that all this sounds too much like hard work for a game I think that most of the people posting influential information do so because they just enjoy doing that sort of thing anyway.



Quote
This forum needs to accept and move past this.  It is a closed chapter in an old book.  At this point the continued rehashing of this topic is nothing more than sour grapes.  We need to heal.


Not sure what you mean by this. We do need to move on however and continue to influence this game and its community in a positive and enjoyable way.


Edit this is now a fan site not a corporate site and so fans are welcome to express their views positively or negatively with the only real caveat being “at the site owners discretion” which is no different to any other thing in the world and the site owner seems to be a nice guy 🙂
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2018, 06:05 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline CaptNasty

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #17 on: Dec 20, 2018, 07:23 PM »
Consider the following:
  • The new CM was trained/indoctrinated by the old CM.
  • The primary value proposition for this forum is as a repository of knowledge and experience, but that reasoning has already been argued and rejected by SC as witnessed by them shuttering the old forum
  • This community has no cards in its hand to play at the moment.  We’re lucky if we have 50 active contributors.  That is not enough to bring any type of pressure to bear on SC... and they know it too
  • The new CM is a member of the Boom Beach team and is an employee of SC
  • These channels are going to protect their turf.  It is only natural that they do so if you consider they are playing a zero sum game: someone has to lose so they can win.  We want to play a win-win game, frankly because our hand is very weak
  • The new CM has already committed publicly to maintaining the status quo.  That means he is not monitoring this forum, he is not contributing.
Ask yourself: why would this new CM as the FNG go against a very divisive and controversial decision that was already made by his predecessor, his team and his employer?  There is no upside for him, only downside.  To do so would be a crippling blow to a new employee.  In other words no appeals or overtures are going to change where we are at.

So to answer Crows question as to what I am getting at: it seems that every time an SC CM comments on Reddit or Discord, whenever there is a percieved slight to the forum in another channel a status report ends up here on this forum and this old wound is rehashed.  How do you think that looks to visitors from Reddit or Discord?  If SC staff were monitoring here, how do you think they see the optics of that?  It is counter to the narrative that we want to paint of a helpful resource.  It is divisive.

It is clear, the closing of the forum hurt people here.  This forum was in part born out of grief, anger, and resentment by those displaced from the old forum.  There are the five stages of grieving and this forum seems stuck somewhere between anger and negotiation.  We need to move on to acceptance, put it behind us and forge a path forward.  Stop getting offended by every slight whether real or percieved.

The path forward is not to bring SC on board.  That is a closed chapter.  Conducting ourselves with the goal of re-engaging SC here is a losing proposition. 

The play for the future is to appeal to the players who want more than Reddit or Discord can provide them.  Being present on the official channels, being helpful and high profile, without any hint of bitterness or acrimony.  Raise awareness of and build this community. When people visit they need to have a helpful, welcoming, and friendly experience.  With such an approach this community can be rebuilt, restored even stronger than before, but I do not believe we will ever again be a channel that is officially recognized or sanctioned by SC.  No amount of hope or positivity is going to change that IMO 
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2018, 07:43 PM by CaptNasty »

Offline Ddixon0420

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #18 on: Dec 20, 2018, 07:41 PM »
Well spoken Capt.!!!

Offline TheBro88

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #19 on: Dec 20, 2018, 07:46 PM »
Well spoken Capt.!!!
Yep, I agree. 👍
TheBro88
VP ~ 700
4 GBE, 5 TD, 1 TH

Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #20 on: Dec 20, 2018, 08:34 PM »
When you wrote your post Captain I thought we were really actually on the same page hence all the agrees. I still think that but with a few differences.

Pressure is not the same as influence and as you say we and no social media platform can bring any sort of useful pressure on supercell. Personally nor would I want to.

We can influence but only with the contributions of existing and future members AND our message being seen by supercell in some way either directly on here or through 3rd parties.

The boom beach community is varied and not a zero sum game. There is no need to have turf or to protect it. I am on reddit, this forum, discord and YouTube and to me it is just the boom beach community. We may be small but how many active contributors are there on discord or reddit? More probably but I don’t see much more. Boom beach is small and will never reach the heights of the past but it is a very good game that I and everyone here want to improve and share.

Maybe I am missing something but I don’t see much negativity on this forum. There is a fair bit of resentment on all platforms about how players feel supercell is treating boom beach. Look at zmots latest video on Drew’s comments on a clash Royale interview and the previous one. Some people have posted they are upset about the forum being killed by drew but I don’t recognise any names from this forum.

People don’t know we exist and we need to promote it in a positive and inclusive way.

The only “slight” I am aware of is an incident on discord removing a post about the forum but I am sure this can be worked out.

People are people and do peoply things like mouth off on the internet esp about well anything really. Drew tried to get onside with his new audience and shock horror seems to have offended the boom beach community whom he will never have to face or deal with again. Some people in the boom beach community have done the same thing with drew. It isn’t news.

So in summary people get offended and tell other people they are offended, happens all the time.
In total agreement with your general message but don’t think we are weak because we are small. 💪

Sorry about the broken response but I am supposed to be doing something else just now and getting daggers 🤪
I hope I have got my opinion across decently.
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2018, 08:38 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline JBlon

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #21 on: Dec 20, 2018, 09:27 PM »
Well that struck me as a not accidental at all slight by omission. He must've been told about the forum. He was trained by the guy who perpetrated the whole fiasco. So this is exactly what I expected.

I don't know why anyone cares about a new CM at all at this point, really. They never provided much value. The communication was always minimal and inconsistent and lacking. All the update info people look for comes out in the form of videos eventually and is accessible in different places. They never shed much more light on anything than what's in those videos.

I also think it's sort of counterproductive in a way to have people going onto those other platforms trying to get their attention. This is what they wanted to happen to the forum people. Don't accept substandard platforms and give them extra traffic. People say they're all lacking, but are still using them. This perpetuates the problem.

I thought the whole idea was just to maintain a committed, passionate community that continues to do what we do and thrive in spite of 'official support'. Yet people are still hoping and clamoring for that legitimatization somehow as if it matters.

Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #22 on: Dec 20, 2018, 09:55 PM »
Ahh is that the slight we are upset about, sorry I didn’t get that. I thought it was...well anything else 🙂 I just took that as a fact, we will get no official recognition end of. But that doesn’t stop the new cm from just being a guest here, I think I made that point earlier. If he reads it that is fine with me. I would like him to participate in discussions in some way even incognito but that may be a step too far employmentwise.
My positivity points were aimed at treating guests well, if we don’t then there is no chance of them staying cm or otherwise.

The poll is to get an idea of what people would like. People want to be heard and to think what they say makes a difference. To be honest most of the other platforms sort of feel like shouting into a crowded train station with comings and goings in the off chance your soul mate happens to be there at just the right moment to hear you. The forum is more like the personal ads in a newspaper but unfortunately our soul mate has stopped reading and gone tinder 🤪

I heard you don’t always get what you want but if you try real hard you might get what you need...


Edit just to make clear I have nothing against other social media platforms, I enjoy reading reddit and discord. I just think the forum does some aspects better, some necessary aspects better just like they do other things better than a forum. Horses for courses.
« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2018, 11:51 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline CaptNasty

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #23 on: Dec 20, 2018, 10:25 PM »
Crow,

I’m going to break this down to a blunt, direct statement:

When we, on this forum have posts that contain things like these:

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It will impact our ability to attract new members from the official channels and get them join this community. 


Regardless of the original intent of the OP in each post, each of these threads at some point delve into the lingering resentment.  So yes, I do think you are missing the negativity.  Or perhaps not realizing how someone who doesn’t care about the forum shutdown might read some of what is going on here.  That by the way is 25% of the posts on the 1st page of General Discussion.

I am unsure if you meant that I was casting daggers at you.  I am not.  This is not personal, so do not take it that way.  What I am doing is giving the forum feedback.  I am ambivalent to the closure of the SC forums I have no animus toward SC or Drew, the looming closure of the forum was evident to me long ago. As a result I have a different perspective than many here do.  Frankly, I like this more as a fan site than when it was an official site... minus the lingering animus toward the ugly divorce.

I guess as you have alluded to several times you either fully or in part are footing the bill for this new forum.  He who pays the bill makes the rules, fine.  But if you don’t want to waste your time and money, you need to listen to diverse perspectives.  Even ones that may be uncomfortable or unwelcome.  The first page has roughly a months worth of posts.  This is not a sustainable model.  We need new blood to breath life into this place and SC is not the answer.  The lingering resentment does not help.

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« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2018, 10:46 PM by CaptNasty »

Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #24 on: Dec 20, 2018, 10:45 PM »
Captain nothing you have said is wrong (just a different take on the same facts) and I have taken nothing personally because I 99% agree with you.
The daggers are from my other half 🤪😱

I pay no bills or make any contribution to this forum other than my time. The finances are all down to fritzelly (thank you). How sustainable the forum is ultimately up to him.

Yes there are digs on some posts, there are negative thoughts on all the platforms even zmot who is as pro boom beach as they come has voiced some negative thoughts. Yes we need to promote boom beach and the forum positively but I am not going to force or edit any posts that do not as long as they are within the rules of the forum and common decency.
This forum is owned by fritzelly but it’s success is ultimately down to everyone on it. If people want to be positive then I am all for it. If they have something to say that is negative then fine.

I will say it again, this is down to us and how we want the forum to be. Go for it.
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Offline TheBro88

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #25 on: Dec 20, 2018, 11:20 PM »
Crow you’re right that you and Capt agree. I think Capt nailed it when he said “fan site.” That’s really what this is. It’s owned by a fan, run by fans, and shaped by the many fan comments. So if Rick came here, he should come as another fan, an informed fan, but not an employee. So whether he visits this site or not is irrelevant. Like I said on Reddit, I’m not sure if we care if SC is represented here. Like you said Crow, the success of this place is up to the people! By the fans, for the fans. If we have really good content, then it would only make sense that more fans would want to be here. But whether SC visits or not...does it matter? We can be fans without it, so let’s do it!
TheBro88
VP ~ 700
4 GBE, 5 TD, 1 TH

Offline JBlon

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #26 on: Dec 20, 2018, 11:23 PM »
Content rules online. That's why its wasted time and energy on other platforms trying to get SC's attention. If the alternatives aren't as good to you then vote that disapproval with a lot of silence and non-participation there. The best thing to do has always been to focus on continuing to do what the forum always did best. Keep generating lots of good game discussion and content and people will find it. Be the glowing alternative to what they're not getting elsewhere. Don't go begging to them. Make this the place to be and draw them to us.

I sometimes think that we don't have as big a variety of interesting new threads as in the past. Part of that is because forum regulars become veterans after awhile and tend to take a lot of game strategy as a given and start to focus on late game issues and updates instead of talking about basic things that will appeal to newer players. But I think it's important to keep talking about those basics, even if we already know them for ourselves. Because newer players are often looking for help on specific topics and keeping discussion going on a range of topics for players of all levels will broaden the appeal of the place. We have to infect others with our enthusiasm for the game and not treat a topic with a tired 'oh not the 16th thread about green statues or TMed is op'.

Offline Orrscores

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #27 on: Dec 21, 2018, 01:27 AM »
Or we could hit them with the flaming bag of dog poop trick!!😂 O sorry...carry on.


I couldn't help but notice the traffic on here today, most in the history of the forum.
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Offline Chaucer

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #28 on: Dec 21, 2018, 04:37 PM »
Captain I am sorry that you feel my thread only brings negativity. I dont think it is a zero sum game.The more interesting BB content there is, the more time I (or other players) will spend on it.

I dont know how to attract users of the other platforms, if mentions of the Forum are deleted from those platforms.Once again I would point out that my post on discord was merely a link back to here, with the message that all the accumulated info and threads from the old Forum were still available.To me, whoever deleted my post is contributing to a diminishing of teh community, not me.
To your point about not posting content that is any way negative here, that would really cut the amount of activity. How is that helpful?If players want to share negative feelings and get feedback, how is that bad?

Offline CaptNasty

Re: New Community Manager 👋 and Dev Vid Update 😱
« Reply #29 on: Dec 21, 2018, 08:02 PM »
Captain I am sorry that you feel my thread only brings negativity. I dont think it is a zero sum game.The more interesting BB content there is, the more time I (or other players) will spend on it.
Did not say that your “thread brings only negativity”.  What I said was:
Regardless of the original intent of the OP in each post, each of these threads at some point delve into the lingering resentment. 
I did not indicate that the op in any of those threads was the instigator nor did I single your post out.  I included what was at the time a list of 25% of the first page posts all of which in one way or another exemplified the type of resentment I am referring to.  Nothing personal, it is called feedback.
To your point about not posting content that is any way negative here, that would really cut the amount of activity. How is that helpful?If players want to share negative feelings and get feedback, how is that bad?
Whether it is bad or not depends upon your goals.  If your goal is to create a small close knit community bonded by the common trauma they went through.  A community that outsiders visit and decide “no thanks, I’ll go somewhere else”;  I would agree there is nothing wrong.

If the goal as I have seen stated on the forum is to be a stand out, a shining alternative where new players come to find value and join the community because it has so much to offer; then repeatedly reopening and rehashing these old wounds is indeed bad because it works in direct opposition to the goal.

As for cutting any negativity, that is not what I said.  I am specifically talking about the bitterness toward SuperCell and other channels.  I love a good debate.  I can enjoy a good argument.  I am the last person you will find to say that we should be all peaches and cream.  You have known me through the forum for years now.  You should know that about me.  I am no Polly Anna.  I think that you fight for what you have a chance to change and that doing so is healthy and even admirable.  The forum closure, the elevation of other channels; we can do exactly nothing to change that decision so let it go.  There is a parable my wife uses that I love: “Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”.

Let’s look at a hypothetical that takes this completely away from Boom Beach and the forum.  Consider: you are moving and looking for a new school for your child.  Some of your co workers tell you about this great school.  It sounds wonderful, you go to the school to attend an open house.  25% of the parents and students bring up their negative feelings about how this school was formed after another school was shut down and its population redistributed.  The negativity somehow seems to find its way into many of the conversations that come up.  The same litany of grievances repeated over and over.  What impression would you have of that school?  What would you think of the culture of that school?  Would you enjoy being around those people?  Would you find it toxic and exhausting?  Would you want your child to go there?

This is about empathy.  Being able to set aside our personal feelings and perspective in order to understand and accept how an outsider could percieve this forum.  If the goal is growth, then we need to provide a place that is welcoming rather than off-putting.  In my opinion we don’t need to talk about the politics of Boom Beach, SuperCell, and different channels.  We just need to talk about the game.  How to play, strategy, share knowledge and know how.  We need to be the fans of the game that we know we are!  If we do that none of the official channels can hope to compete.  We have so many really intelligent, great, and very experienced players in this community.   That is our greatest strength and greatest value that we can offer.

I dont know how to attract users of the other platforms, if mentions of the Forum are deleted from those platforms.Once again I would point out that my post on discord was merely a link back to here, with the message that all the accumulated info and threads from the old Forum were still available.To me, whoever deleted my post is contributing to a diminishing of teh community, not me.
Luring people from other channels by going into their “house” is admittedly a somewhat brute force tactic.  Some might even consider it poaching. 

We need to get creative.  Think outside of the box.  zMot was here today.  On this very forum.  He is a name in Boom Beach.  Yallik is a regular here.  Could we forge relationships with these content creators and get them to throw a little love our way? A kind mention from zMot could help us out.  But we need an inviting space before we can ask people like zMot to put their good names on the line by in essence vouching for us.
« Last Edit: Dec 21, 2018, 10:17 PM by CaptNasty »