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Author Topic: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡  (Read 639 times)

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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« on: Jun 11, 2019, 12:46 PM »
Global #50 at the moment is a level 48 with a beached hq at 1630vp.


This issue was quickly identified after warships dropped and supercell was informed but it would appear that yet again vp leaderboards are not a priority. To be honest I don’t blame them as Warships needed to be fixed. However vp leaderboards need to be sorted out. Everyone in the Western Hemisphere seems to have stopped pushing vp, compare warships global to vp global. Western vp pushers are very very disillusioned.


Supercell this is a problem that you have allowed to flourish for years. Why have vp at all, what good is it, why is it even in the game at this point?
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Offline LilMiss

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #1 on: Jun 11, 2019, 11:45 PM »
But have they stopped paying...?
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Offline MikeCT1020

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #2 on: Jun 15, 2019, 11:11 PM »
Global #50 at the moment is a level 48 with a beached hq at 1630vp.


This issue was quickly identified after warships dropped and supercell was informed but it would appear that yet again vp leaderboards are not a priority. To be honest I don’t blame them as Warships needed to be fixed. However vp leaderboards need to be sorted out. Everyone in the Western Hemisphere seems to have stopped pushing vp, compare warships global to vp global. Western vp pushers are very very disillusioned.


Supercell this is a problem that you have allowed to flourish for years. Why have vp at all, what good is it, why is it even in the game at this point?

They don’t push because the Chinese work together and other players can’t get through. While what the Chinese players have been doing is against the TOS and therefore is cheating, it is also the type of collusion that is perfectly acceptable in their culture. While we yell and scream about what they’re doing, they don’t think they’re doing anything wrong.

Last year a group of English speaking VP pushers tried forming a group called the alliance to get an English speaking person to #1. When it was mentioned on the old forum people got banned for talking about it.

Offline Bismarck

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #3 on: Jun 17, 2019, 07:20 AM »
Banned for discussing the Alliance?  Why? The Alliance never advocated violation of the TOS or was involved in anything unethical.
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Offline LilMiss

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #4 on: Jun 17, 2019, 08:54 AM »
Banned for discussing the Alliance?  Why? The Alliance never advocated violation of the TOS or was involved in anything unethical.

I think some people got banned, not so much for discussing the alliance, but  that the discussions got heated.... and, well, people got banned.
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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #5 on: Jun 17, 2019, 10:01 AM »
I don’t see anything in the original thread that would result in banning but I wasn’t there.

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The thread is a very interesting read.

As is this...
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke (in a letter addressed to Thomas Mercer).

That's the short version, attributed to Burke. A longer version reads as follows:

Whilst men are linked together, they easily and speedily communicate the alarm of any evil design. They are enabled to fathom it with common counsel, and to oppose it with united strength. Whereas, when they lie dispersed, without concert, order, or discipline, communication is uncertain, counsel difficult, and resistance impracticable. Where men are not acquainted with each other’s principles, nor experienced in each other’s talents, nor at all practised in their mutual habitudes and dispositions by joint efforts in business; no personal confidence, no friendship, no common interest, subsisting among them; it is evidently impossible that they can act a public part with uniformity, perseverance, or efficacy. In a connection, the most inconsiderable man, by adding to the weight of the whole, has his value, and his use; out of it, the greatest talents are wholly unserviceable to the public. No man, who is not inflamed by vain-glory into enthusiasm, can flatter himself that his single, unsupported, desultory, unsystematic endeavours, are of power to defeat the subtle designs and united cabals of ambitious citizens. When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.

–Edmund Burke, Thoughts on the Cause of the Present Discontents 82-83 (1770) in: Select Works of Edmund Burke, vol. 1, p. 146 (Liberty Fund ed. 1999).
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Offline MikeCT1020

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #6 on: Jun 17, 2019, 07:30 PM »
Banned for discussing the Alliance?  Why? The Alliance never advocated violation of the TOS or was involved in anything unethical.

I recall Drew taking action and trying to shut down any talk about it as soon as the topic came up. Remember the goal of the alliance was to work together to get an English speaking player to the global #1 spot. That does constitute players trying to manipulate the leaderboard which violates supercell’s TOS and therefore was a subject banned from their forum. I do realize that the Chinese teams are doing this but any discussion of it is on boards that supercell doesn’t control.

Offline LilMiss

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #7 on: Jun 17, 2019, 09:03 PM »
I don’t see anything in the original thread that would result in banning but I wasn’t there.

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The thread is a very interesting read.

As is this...
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”― Edmund Burke (in a letter addressed to Thomas Mercer).

That's the short version, attributed to Burke. A longer version reads as follows:

Whilst men are linked together, they easily and speedily communicate the alarm of any evil design. They are enabled to fathom it with common counsel, and to oppose it with united strength. Whereas, when they lie dispersed, without concert, order, or discipline, communication is uncertain, counsel difficult, and resistance impracticable. Where men are not acquainted with each other’s principles, nor experienced in each other’s talents, nor at all practised in their mutual habitudes and dispositions by joint efforts in business; no personal confidence, no friendship, no common interest, subsisting among them; it is evidently impossible that they can act a public part with uniformity, perseverance, or efficacy. In a connection, the most inconsiderable man, by adding to the weight of the whole, has his value, and his use; out of it, the greatest talents are wholly unserviceable to the public. No man, who is not inflamed by vain-glory into enthusiasm, can flatter himself that his single, unsupported, desultory, unsystematic endeavours, are of power to defeat the subtle designs and united cabals of ambitious citizens. When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.

–Edmund Burke, Thoughts on the Cause of the Present Discontents 82-83 (1770) in: Select Works of Edmund Burke, vol. 1, p. 146 (Liberty Fund ed. 1999).


I was going to give this a waaaaay long replay from a philosophical point of view as I no longer believe that it stands true today.

The way that evil flourishes today is that people don’t recognise it.  People are far more clever at manipulation, packaging and can distribute to a far wider audience than anticipated by Burke.  We don’t often know what the source is of our information, nor peoples motivation behind it.

But by far the worst contribution is the drip drip drip feeding of wrong doing. Overtime, things are deemed more acceptable, then right. Particularly when they are unchallenged strongly.

This is what is seen on that thread. There has always been talk of collusion on the forums about the leaderboard, from not attacking to  asking people to beach their HQ, sharing accounts and more. 

What is interesting is that, over time, not attacking another person has become so normative it is  acceptable to the point that what makes it wrong is the exchange of money.

Not the ToS nor  that it perpetuates the problem in the first place, and, as one person argued in the thread, makes it worse.


The blame lies solely at SC’s feet.

The ToS need to be vague and wooly as there will always be people who challenge ‘fair play’. There will always be cheats, collusion etc. What SC has failed to do it to admit the problems, clearly state that this goes against FairPlay. They can’t do so because they can not enforce it.  I may ‘FNO’ a friend on my map to help them... that may not be a problem, but the scale of it when organised is what is causing the problem.  And it’s the organising that SC needs to crack down on - it can’t be on the basis of whether people payor not.

But as a company and as a team - it fails. Repeatedly fails.  And makes it difficult even more difficult for itself, and players.

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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #8 on: Jun 17, 2019, 09:30 PM »
Interesting, I agree that it is entirely Supercells fault that they have allowed this manipulation to flourish. They need to say clearly that it is against the terms of service and people will be punished. It seems to be very obvious that they cannot prove this manipulation since no one has ever been banned for it. But they don’t need to prove anything, just suspect. Now I know this is not the democratic way but this is not a court of law, no one is going to prison or losing out, it is a game.
Banning 100 accounts a month is nothing (random arbitrary number) until the message gets through.


Edit btw I do suggest looking in great detail to the top 5 in global and if any suspicious activity is suspected in an appropriate time period then punish. Don’t get hung up on proof or proving. There has been 5 years of broken leaderboards, supercell can’t prove it so suspicions will have to do. Put the leaders under the microscope.


Edit again, the funny thing is the magic accounts are not imo manipulating vp or doing anything wrong. They are just playing the game, it is not their fault that the game doesn’t match them up properly. Although they do know that it isn’t right but what is the alternative from their point of view?
« Last Edit: Jun 17, 2019, 10:06 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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Offline LilMiss

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #9 on: Jun 17, 2019, 10:12 PM »
Interesting, I agree that it is entirely Supercells fault that they have allowed this manipulation to flourish. They need to say clearly that it is against the terms of service and people will be punished. It seems to be very obvious that they cannot prove this manipulation since no one has ever been banned for it. But they don’t need to prove anything, just suspect. Now I know this is not the democratic way but this is not a court of law, no one is going to prison or losing out, it is a game.
Banning 100 accounts a month is nothing (random arbitrary number) until the message gets through.

I agree with the banning. But it isn’t hard to get proof.

From what I have understood there are chat rooms, forums etc with  these things being discussed in the open. It isn’t hard to join them and observe... it’s been going on for years.

The one good point Prowler Guy did make in his posts, which unfortunately came with a dose of ... prowlerguy lol  was where he started by saying “If I worked for SC I would do....”
At which point I zoned out lol.

But his point, that SC needs to take steps to identify the players independently, and they can then do random checks.

It annoys me that SC allowed the previous banned players to pull that far ahead of other players on the LB without  investigating earlier.


I do believe they value Fair play and look into issues, I do not think that it is a high enough priority to justify the hours to put into it.
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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #10 on: Jun 17, 2019, 10:32 PM »
Hmmm was just thinking that maybe we should take a different line with this. If the leaderboards are broken and supercell is unwilling or unable to fix them so it is fair then maybe supercell should embrace the brokenness of it.
It is only cheating to manipulate your vp because supercell says it is. Maybe we should just embrace the team aspect of the global leaderboard and formalise it as a legitimate part of the game... still no place for mods or hacking though
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Offline LilMiss

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #11 on: Jun 17, 2019, 10:53 PM »
Re: magic accounts.

To be honest, this doesn’t bother me. Few people would have the skills to move upwards and it doesn’t affect many.

Unless you are suggesting that it affects maxed accounts that got the lead in the first place.

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Offline LilMiss

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #12 on: Jun 17, 2019, 11:14 PM »
Hmmm was just thinking that maybe we should take a different line with this. If the leaderboards are broken and supercell is unwilling or unable to fix them so it is fair then maybe supercell should embrace the brokenness of it.
It is only cheating to manipulate your vp because supercell says it is. Maybe we should just embrace the team aspect of the global leaderboard and formalise it as a legitimate part of the game... still no place for mods or hacking though


I think that is what the alliance thought in the thread. And it is what people thought when they were modding. “Everyone else is doing it, it’s not a level playing field, so I will do it too” (I didn’t mod BTW!)


It’s dangerous territory.

There was an assumption in the thread whereby because SC didn’t rule it out then it was OK. But SC has a chance to  and say “yeah, fine no problems with it.” In their response, but they didn’t. They ignored what the post was about entirely.

I am working on the assumption that it is too bothersome to do something about for the small number it affects. It maybe it doesn’t have such a large effect as we feel it does... maybe more people are doing it than we realise.

But SC can decide at its own leisure if it wishes to ban people for this at any point in time. It’s just more and more people may get banned for doing this.
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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #13 on: Jun 17, 2019, 11:24 PM »
I always thought that magic accounts would self correct as more appeared but that isn’t the point.

Players pushing vp spend years preparing by accumulating power powder, statues, shards and skill. I think you need approximately 4K pp for a genuine push to the top. They sacrifice almost every other part of the game and their life’s (checking spawns every 19 minutes, every day). Unfortunately they don’t get the opportunity to do so due to blockers and other forms of unfair play.
Then magic accounts appear who only get attacked a handful of times a day compared do 20+ times per day for other players. Supercell fixed it though but then broke it again but worse it wasn’t even considered during the rewrites. A slap in the face and when they complain everyone rolls their eyes.

Imagine if all the operations above bottleneck were removed due to warships because “it isn’t a priority” for the new code but they will get around to it after Warships is stable but hey you still have ops you can do. Or mega crab, all those crabbing statues waiting around until that aspect of the game is considered important.

Instead of being admired for their dedication to their aim of the global leaderboard they are being told directly that they aren’t important, not a priority and viewed by many as suspect. Slapped in the face by developers repeatedly and consistently who are not helping and when they try to help themselves are called cheaters and vilified.

How much development time spent on mega crab? New operations over the years? Warships? Daily events? When was the last time the vp leaderboard worked at all?

I really don’t know why anyone ever pushes vp beyond their own local leaderboards.
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Online Artist formerly known as Crows Nest

Re: Magic Accounts, They’re Back 😡
« Reply #14 on: Jun 17, 2019, 11:31 PM »
Yeah that is my point though, it is only dangerous territory because supercell says it is. Supercell should accept the manipulation and team aspect of vp pushing on global if they are not able to make it fair. Remove the ban hammer for vp manipulation and let the small number of vp pushing players get on with it.

There are few sports that do not involve a team. Formula 1 has 1(2) drivers with a huge team behind them propelling them to championships. Cycling the same. All corrupt in many ways but functioning and entertaining.

If they can’t regulate it then step away and let the players work things out.


Edit I would rather that supercell made the leaderboards fair for individuals to show their skill in this aspect of the game but if they can’t do that then a different tack needs to be taken other than ignoring it.


Edit again, I totally see that vp pushing is a minority aspect of the game but why? There aren’t enough leaderboards for people to be engaged in vp pushing. There should be staged leaderboards, different divisions within countries and globally at the very least.
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2019, 12:33 AM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
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