Boom Beach Forum

General Discussion => General Chat => Topic started by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 21, 2019, 11:52 AM

Title: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 21, 2019, 11:52 AM
If you came across a player that you were 99.9% sure was cheating what would you do?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Jan 21, 2019, 01:36 PM
Roll their base and move on...
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: JBlon on Jan 21, 2019, 03:21 PM
Hey you forgot to include the smenis option!
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Ddixon0420 on Jan 21, 2019, 04:26 PM
Fno'd a base yesterday, first time in a long time! Tripped the to many attacks unboosted, did the same fully boosted yesterday! Rather then think they were cheating; I'd say my attacks were subpar. Great setup with 7 boosted ice and 2 Sg's. I just wasn't good enough! LMAO!!!
  Thats certainly not saying the one you came acrossed wasn't cheating Crow. But I have to agree with Capt.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Orrscores on Jan 21, 2019, 05:11 PM
How do you know he/ she was cheating? Who cares except the LB pushers so I 2nd Capt's comment
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: TheBro88 on Jan 21, 2019, 06:56 PM
Report if it was just a matter of tapping a button and writing a sentence. Cheating ruins the game for everyone, so I think it would be worth a minute or two.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 21, 2019, 07:01 PM
Player was online for 19 hours, checking at least every 20 minutes. Also spamming attack several times every 4-5 hours for approx 20 mins (annoyed me). Went to sleep, still online upon waking for another 3 hours.
Found another opponent.
Seems cheaty to me.


But the question was more general.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Jan 21, 2019, 07:24 PM
What VP Crows?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 21, 2019, 07:31 PM
Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521,1530, 1548, 1567, 1585, 1602, 1621, 1642, 1663, 1681, 1701, 1708, 1723, 1739, 1759, 1781, 1798, 1816, 1829, 1887, 1908, 1928, 1948, 1976, 1999, 2020, 2047, 2066, 2095, 2125, 2131, 2153, 2173, 2197, 2218, 2235, 2251, 2272, 2290, missed, 2309, 2331, 2347, 2372, 2391, 2411, 2431, 2452, 2468, 2484, 2513, 2532, 2551, 2572, 2591, 2612, 2636, 2650, 2662, 2680, 2699, 2717, 2735, 2753, 2770, 2787, 2806, 2825, 2842, 2856, 2875, 2893, 2906, 2926, 2938, 2952, 2942, 2924, 2906, 2876, 2851, 2819, 2796, 2772, 2751, 2722, 2696, 2681,2668, 2640, 2612, 2590, 2564, 2541, 2517, 2486, 2456, 2436, 2419, 2399, 2385, 2370, 2354, 2337
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Jan 21, 2019, 08:13 PM
Barely worth spending your life stopping people attacking you
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 21, 2019, 08:26 PM
Sort of, I suspect that it is a future top global leaderboard player on their way up.
It is so unlikely that a player can be online for that time fairly. For me to not get a single attack on them for 22 hours seems beyond the realms of probability.
There was a reddit post saying that a common tactic is to pay people to keep attacking their base with medics on rotation thereby shutting out real attacks. All sorts of strange tricks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BoomBeach/comments/a3qzgd/the_tactics_used_at_the_top_of_pvp_leaderboards/

Not how I would want to succeed but each to their own.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Orrscores on Jan 22, 2019, 12:26 AM
That's what I mean...its been talked about for as long as I can remember....payoffs...beaching HQ....sharing accounts...SC has rarely done anything about it so I could care less at this point. I just play to have fun with TF mates ( as stinky, mean and annoying as they may be😜) and that's about it.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: MikeCT1020 on Jan 22, 2019, 02:25 AM
Sort of, I suspect that it is a future top global leaderboard player on their way up.
It is so unlikely that a player can be online for that time fairly. For me to not get a single attack on them for 22 hours seems beyond the realms of probability.
There was a reddit post saying that a common tactic is to pay people to keep attacking their base with medics on rotation thereby shutting out real attacks. All sorts of strange tricks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BoomBeach/comments/a3qzgd/the_tactics_used_at_the_top_of_pvp_leaderboards/

Not how I would want to succeed but each to their own.

The problem with something like this is how do you prove it. Even if you are 99.9% sure they are doing it, supercell would need proof that it is going on in order for them to do anything.

Are they even going after cheaters anymore?  Last I heard about anything Drew mentioned on the old forum that they had banned the #1 player at one time for a shared account. I haven’t heard about anything regarding bans since.

If they ever watched Turtle’s videos they would have all the proof they need to ban a bunch of angry family accounts. He flat out has stated in some videos that the attack he is showing was 1 person with another person’s account.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Orrscores on Jan 22, 2019, 02:44 AM
Well that's common knowledge isn't it? I thought it was funny when Northern Rage called him out publicly....numerous times!
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 22, 2019, 09:16 AM
Proof nah, this isn’t a court of law, it isn’t up to me to prove anything. Think of it as a tip line. When someone phones the police that their house is being broken into the police don’t ask them to prove it and submit screenshots or a video.

To ask for proof before they do anything is laziness and/or lack of will at worst and lack of resources at best.

All they have to do is see the players attack log, that isn’t hard, they don’t even need proof just reasonable suspicion. It would take them less time to check than it would to reply asking for proof.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Yallik on Jan 22, 2019, 03:21 PM
From SC's angle, very easy to investigate that.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Ddixon0420 on Jan 22, 2019, 03:33 PM
I can only echo what Orr said; I play for fun.
  At 1300 vp, I'm not a Lb contender.
  It is disheartening to have only 1 left on map, burn thru boost from op trying to attack, keep trying thru the day, finally get in only to have a connection loss lol!!!
  Never understood how anyone could get an ego boost, or any kind of satisfaction from cheating, but it takes all kinds I guess.
  Doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Whirlwind on Jan 22, 2019, 03:49 PM
I could write a book about vp pushing & cheating. It’s so prolific in the global top 10, I don’t think any of them do it on their own any more. My last personal goal in this game is to hit 2000vp with my alt account, hopefully about a year from now. Then I’m done with the game.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 28, 2019, 01:05 PM
I have been tracking this player since I ran into him and this is his daily vp (checked when I wake/remember)

Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521

The first one I didn’t note but it would have been low to mid 1300s.
Is this a realistic and fair pattern of daily vp increase?


Edit irrespective of the daily vp increase, my experience trying to get the opportunity to attack this player still strikes me as off.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: JBlon on Jan 29, 2019, 12:13 AM
That's 7 consecutive days? I don't see how that's possible.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Jan 29, 2019, 07:57 AM
That's not possible unless you are not losing VP
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 31, 2019, 06:14 PM
I reported this player to supercell, it seems by the survey that others would do that too. I can’t say if the player was cheating, maybe supercell looked at the player and said all is good since no action was taken against him as shown by his continued meteoric rise in vp (now at 1567 over 200vp in about 9 days)

This is my conversation regarding it with supercell, I have removed identifying details.

This player has been online for 14 hours Xxxxxxxxxxxxx
———————————-
Hello there Crows Nest,

This is xxxxx by your side, hope you are doing great. 🤗

Well, as you told me , you found someone being online for 14h?

We have the personal break which kicks after a 4 hours and the player goes offline so you can attack them, once he is offline, he can log back after a while again.

If you are checking this guy from time to time, it is possible to be checking him when he is online. It is impossible for a player to be 14 hours online since after 4 hours the personal break kicks in. So, I think that this guy is taking breaks in the meanwhile.

If though you have prof that he is indeed for 14 hours online, I am more than happy to investigate anything that has to do with it as we want you to have a fair and respectful gaming environment.

It was great writing to you and helping out! If there is anything else you want to ask, feel free to write back any time.

Have a great day ahead,

Xxxxxxxxxx
—————————
Hi Xxxxxxxx, thanks for your response 👍 no I have no proof (can’t record a video that long) but I am one of those people who check the game every 20 minutes or so for new spawns and this player was constantly online for 18 hours before I went to sleep. I even spammed attack for 20 minutes a few times with more than 4 hours between. This player is still online although I can now find another opponent.
This is likely someone who is getting constantly attacked by say medics as part of a tos breaking agreement and will be heading for the global leaderboard very soon as no one can legitimately attack him with proper troops.
I suggest you just look at this players metrics as this is cheating.
Thank you
—————————-
Hey there Crows Nest!

This is Xxxxxxxx. Thanks for writing back!

So, I went ahead and read the communication you had with us. As xxxxxx stated, there are 4 hours of online protected time. When that time pass, though, we're vulnerable to receive attacks. The only case, though, where we can still stay protected, is during the time we are in our base. As long as we're in our Home base and not anywhere else in the Archipelago, we can stay in the game.

If the 4 hours pass, and we're anywhere in the Archipelago we can get attacked and kicked off. While when we're attacking, we can still get attacked and not get kicked off during the attack. Though, we will see our base raided after we end the attack.

Hope I cleared things out. If anything else comes up, you're more than welcome to reply right back to me!

Have a great day ahead and rip off the Mega Crab claws!!! ;)
—————————
Hi xxxxxxx sorry but that is not the case, after 4 hours you can be attacked at anytime unless you are already under attack or attacking.
After 4 hours online this player can be attacked at any time unless they are attacking or being attacked.
It is highly unlikely (totally impossible) that this player can maintain their online status for 18 hours.
This is a known ploy by cartels for the leaderboard number 1 position. They pay other players to attack them with medics constantly and in rotation. They get paid to do this.
I suggest you take a closer look at this player.
—————————-

Welcome back!

As you correctly say after 4 hours of protected gameplay, you can be attacked at anytime unless you're already under attack. An extra thing that applies, here, is when you're at your home base, too. Being anywhere else than there, can result in getting attacked. While, if we're attacking we can still receive attack, the result of which will be visible, after the end of our attack.

That being said, in that rank, the competitivity is really strong. So, even if a player stays online, he/she will eventually leave the base to do some dives, raids, or anything else! In that time, even if it's really little, the player will receive an attack.

In any case, rest assured that good sportsmanship is a hallmark of Supercell games. We monitor everything in and out of the game and thanks to your report, we keep more eyes out and proceed to further actions, if needed!

Should you have any other question, you know the drill!! ;)

Sincerely yours,
Xxxxxxx

Closed
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Jan 31, 2019, 06:23 PM
It seems the oh so friendly customer support could save a lot of time with a simple "shut up, we dont care."
 :-\ Strange that all the support messages focus only on the mechanics of the 4-hour window and completely ignore the rest of your message. Perhaps they are in on the conspiracy? :o
Out of curiousity, is the aformentioned player happen to have TM in the name?


 
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Jan 31, 2019, 06:32 PM
No but this could be a cool new forum guessing game 😜

It would have been better if they just say hey thanks we’ll look into it appreciate your time but we can’t say what action if required we will be taking.
Instead I got that ☝️ which was from two different representatives of supercell...
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: JBlon on Feb 01, 2019, 11:37 PM
Every single correspondence I've had with them has had that exact same peppy, vacuous, head-in-the-sand, talking in circles around the issue tone.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 04, 2019, 01:08 PM
Vp update

Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521,1530, 1548, 1567, 1585, 1602, 1621, 1642
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Feb 04, 2019, 02:00 PM
Gaining 20 vp per day at that vp level consistently would need 10 ice boosted if not cheating
I struggle to gain 5 vp at 1200, higher the vp the more the raids increase
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 04, 2019, 02:20 PM
When I first encountered the player they had 7 ice none boosted(and I was positive I could beat him), now he has 7 boosted ice so it is possible that there is nothing untoward now but there was when I couldn’t attack him. Maybe that was nothing to do with him, maybe some sort of error.

I am more interested in his vp performance now. I never thought it was possible to gain so much vp so quickly before. I thought you inched up the vp leaderboard bit by bit so this is very interesting to me and I am sure interests others.

His rise has certainly been quicker than I ever thought was possible and I am strangely looking forward to how far it will continue.


Edit yes I would be overjoyed at getting 20vp a week let alone per day but I don’t use ice or protos. I was always under the impression that you got raided a lot more the higher your vp. The players raiding you would still beat you eventually, maybe someone who has reached those heady heights could enlighten us with the reality rather than our assumptions.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 04, 2019, 05:04 PM
Second guess, does the account in question have square characters under the name?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 04, 2019, 05:06 PM
Nope 🙂
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Feb 04, 2019, 06:58 PM
Here is the thing.  You are “Hang ‘em high Harry” on this thread.  On the “Mordy reaches global #1” thread, you want to give Mordy the benefit of the doubt.  So on one thread a lack of proof is ok, we can brand the guy a cheater and report him.  But on another thread, one where you seem to like/respect the cheater in question you have rationalized that the cheating is ok on the ground that there is “no proof that Mordy got any benefit from joining the Chinese team”.


So which is it?  Do we require proof or is proof irrelevant?  You are not going to be able to have your cake and eat it too on this one.


The only real difference between the two is that one guy, you at some level “know”.  While the other is an anonymous stranger to you.  Therein lies my statement regarding moral relativism.  You are applying situational ethics/morals to the same conduct: cheating, based on your own personal feelings/perceptions toward the player in question.


This is a classic behavior observed in sports fans too.  The other team commits a foul on a fans team and does not get called.  The fans are furious at the injustice.  However if the fans team were to commit the same foul and get called, they fans would see it as a “bad call”.


We can tend to be more forgiving of those we know or like versus a complete outsider.  Such behavior, while natural and even understandable is not productive and can even prove destructive if allowed to run unchecked.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 04, 2019, 08:01 PM
When I buy cake I always eat it 😜
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_can't_have_your_cake_and_eat_it

As I previously said I can’t prove anything. I had reasonable doubt and contacted the “authorities” to investigate. They can investigate and determine any wrong doing. Did they? Does the “cheating?” thread details seem okay to you? I posted originally it not to “out” the guy (and still haven’t and won’t) but to ask the question if you are 99% sure someone is cheating then what do you do. You said nothing, others agreed with you and others disagreed with you.
Someone asked for specifics which I provided then I realised how interesting the details were. If he is cheating then how far will he get, if he is not cheating then isn’t it interesting that he can increase his vp by 20 per day by putting down 7 boosted ice? Then I thought how interesting the supercell response was to my message to them. So many flaws in their responses, certainly worth talking about.

Now Master Mordy is being “doubted” through association with a Chinese team. I have seen nothing that casts doubt on his achievement other than by association. I don’t know Mordy but I admire the hits that he has shared on YouTube, I wish I had a tenth of his skill at this game. There is also a weeks difference in posting, cheating thread first then a week later Mordy thread. There was no initial correlation but there is now a cross over. I also spelled out what I consider cheating in that thread. If Mordy did any of the things I consider cheating then I would also consider him to have cheated. If this other player in the cheating thread did any of the things I listed then I would consider him to be a cheat.

The differences we are having is what we consider cheating and what action we take as a result. You said no action, I said I would report him and did.

I don’t see any inconsistency in my statements or actions but often we don’t see the wood for the trees and I do appreciate the responses.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 04, 2019, 09:00 PM
3rd guess, is there a tilde in the name? ~
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 04, 2019, 09:10 PM
Nope 🙂
I would love to know all these players that you are suspicious of, maybe pm me? 🤪
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 04, 2019, 09:13 PM
I'm just trying to match up the global leaderboard with the details you've given!
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: MinionsWeb on Feb 04, 2019, 09:15 PM
bought account
end of story
have ethics at all levels
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 11, 2019, 10:21 AM
From discord today (not me 🙂)

if you track log of Global #2 yesterday, you will find evidence of cheating and collusion

If they tracked the log of any of the top guys, the leaderboard would look a lot different 😂

Breaking news: Cheating and collusion in the high end VP community!
In other news: Water is wet and the sky is blue.

Yesterday was specific because medic shielding was done for more than 8-12 hours just so that he could get the new tag bu exchanging position with top 1

I agree just today I spent over 4 hours trying to attack Global #12 tag# 8QRCQVVG <@276862463960547328> we really need something to be done about this type of cheating. How about allow people to attack even if people are online without kicking them out of the game, just lock the resources they have at time of raid and subtract accordingly after the attacker wins. Do allow more than 1 person to attack someone at the same time because this way they won't get their friends to keep attacking them but not dropping troops and thereby locking up the chance for someone else to attack. You can of course still have the 4 hours online time just make sure that once it's up that's it no matter what.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 11, 2019, 10:49 AM
Vp update
Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521,1530, 1548, 1567, 1585, 1602, 1621, 1642, 1663, 1681, 1701, 1708, 1723, 1739, 1759

Odd one between 1701 and 1708 but otherwise consistent.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Feb 11, 2019, 12:58 PM
In what is a timely and topical moment, we have a link in the boom box talking about fairplay.  In that blog post there is a link to this:

https://supercell.com/en/safe-and-fair-play/

Highlights:
Buying and selling accounts: forbidden
Match fixing: cheating
Encouraging others to cheat: cheating
Manipulating the game: cheating

All of the above activites and more can bring the ban hammer down.

When it comes to things like cheating we do not set the standards.  The fair play policy and ToS set these standards.

That last Discord post about the #1 sure sounds like some game manipulation.  Looks like Mordy’s chinese team is moving him out of #1 and someone else into #1.  This makes the assertion that Mordy joined a Chinese team but did not participate in any questionable activities even less... believable.  It could be seen as verification that Mordy was recieving the benefit of shielding by the team, but that benefit has ended.


For that matter the assertion that Mordy joined a Chinese team but did not engage in any questionable activities is laughable.  If Mordy joined a team, kept doing what he was already doing, then reached #1; he could have accomplished the feat without having to joining a team.  There would be no need for a team.  Rather, I would say that he joined a Chinese team because what he was doing was not working, he was stalled out and he needed to change things up.  It is well documented how the Chinese teams change things up to get their members to #1.

Too bad nobody tracked Mordy’s VP progression once he was ascendent.  But he is liked by some on this forum, so he was cheered and lauded rather than scrutinized.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 11, 2019, 05:03 PM
Too bad nobody tracked Mordy’s VP progression once he was ascendent.  But he is liked by some on this forum, so he was cheered and lauded rather than scrutinized.

Exactly CaptNasty I wish we could look at the leaderboard and cheer and give plaudits to the people there. If only there was more than empty words from supercell in a boom box.
https://supercell.com/en/safe-and-fair-play/

If only they monitored the say top 10 and employed people that was actually interested in fair play. Instead anyone on the leaderboard is tarred a cheater because no one trusts supercell to enforce their own rules.
They don’t have the interest or will to do anything useful about it. Luckily it affects a tiny percentage of their player base and they profit from it.

Let’s see who they ban based on your reports, you did report all this cheating? Let us know what response you got please.

I set my own rules in life, supercell makes their rules, I enforce my rules...
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: newstudent on Feb 11, 2019, 07:03 PM
I am not sure what is going on in this thread. Philosophy 101 and sports fandom? VP leaderboard is a race. A certain team is leading the race right now and all of the drivers want to lead a lap. So, they work it out that they all do. SC created teams. 5 man on up to 50. SC made it so that you don’t spawn TF members. If the global LB decided to all join one TF the rest of us would have a pretty hard time just cracking into it. Is that cheating? The shenanigans and tomfoolery at the top is an annoyance, however it is avoidable by joining the winning side. These folks are applying the most efficient use of their resources. Win for capitalism! Everyone doesn’t get a diamond trophy. Oh wait, except for attacking the mega crab. Coordination is not the same as altering software or hardware. Or in the case of magic accounts taking a walk with one ball while the rest of us need four. Magic accounts weren’t cheating, they were playing a different game on the same scoreboard.

This was Mordy’s third trip, that I know of, up to the top 5. The first was during the hero update. Could you imagine how frustrating that must have been? This is what leads most of us to be fairly certain of his accomplishment. The account he did it with was in Volcano collecting powder for eons. Started climbing from the high 900’s VP and 7 PSC to ice last July. Everyone in the PVP world pays a bit of attention to what Mordy is up to and at one time or another have watched his defenses and attacks from within the same TF.

I will also reserve the right to cry and complain when I’m trying to crack the global top 10.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 11, 2019, 07:14 PM
SC made it so that you don’t spawn TF members. If the global LB decided to all join one TF the rest of us would have a pretty hard time just cracking into it. Is that cheating? The shenanigans and tomfoolery at the top is an annoyance, however it is avoidable by joining the winning side.

I'm going to call Strawman on your argument. Are you asserting that is what happened? Are the top 50 players in the same TF? I have seen no one in this thread or elsewhere make the accusation that joining a task force is cheating.

Would being safe from the 50 players in your TF really make that much of a difference though? It is my understanding that the top pool is much larger than 50 player.
I'm sure Pete Rose would have loved to use your "shenanigans and tomfoolery" defense!

Since you seem to be a part of that world, can you ask Mordy what the going rate is for the 7day #1 badge, and why he didn't spring for the 14day badge like the player currently just above him?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 11, 2019, 07:56 PM
Nah he isn’t saying that is what happened, just that could happen but as you know the reality is much bigger.
These teams are hundreds, even over a thousand strong and it doesn’t have to take medic attacks to get an advantage.

I have attacked a few people I know with warriors and let them die so they get intel and diamonds. Others have attacked me doing the same thing, I don’t ask if they want it, they don’t ask me, it is just a friendly respect thing. But if this is done on a bigger scale then it has a significant effect.

Is the same act a bannable offense on a small scale as a big scale, it is vp manipulation (intended or otherwise) after all?

Apply the rules evenly and effectively, don’t pick on the low hanging fruit and make examples. Just monitor the global leaderboard in some effective fair way and listen to the players. I am sure we can all agree on that 🙂
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: newstudent on Feb 11, 2019, 08:14 PM
I'm going to call Strawman on your argument. Are you asserting that is what happened? Are the top 50 players in the same TF? I have seen no one in this thread or elsewhere make the accusation that joining a task force is cheating.

Swap the word team for TF. I was just pointing out an example of how to get around the team collusion accusation. Chinese team must be the top keyword in the thread at this point.

 
Would being safe from the 50 players in your TF really make that much of a difference though? It is my understanding that the top pool is much larger than 50 player.

Sure the pool is larger. However, if the 50 best aren’t attacking each other and share every attack and defense among themselves, it’d be pretty hard to penetrate. Attack just one and 50 alter their defense. Lose to one and 50 have the solution to your defense. Unlimited free practice attacks on each other. The advantage would be quite significant.

So when one member of the top 50 is through how would the new member be admitted? Sure wouldn’t be done by a scoring system. It’d be a political decision. After some time there would be friction and feelings then we would end up where we are now. Teams larger than a single TF that use the rules to their advantage. This is kinda how everything always has worked in the world. Boom is a world with a human element that they have figured out how to use.

As for modifying code or hardware, hax, stealing, intentionally misleading of others... It’s universally wrong. Buying accounts used to bother me but the player still needs to execute. Sharing accounts is the worst. It happens in every game and it is well... I use a lot of bad words about it.

Since you seem to be a part of that world, can you ask Mordy what the going rate is for the 7day #1 badge, and why he didn't spring for the 14day badge like the player currently just above him?

I’m not an Angry, I tried it, just wasn’t for me. Too much going on.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: MinionsWeb on Feb 11, 2019, 09:01 PM
Exactly CaptNasty I wish we could look at the leaderboard and cheer and give plaudits to the people there. If only there was more than empty words from supercell in a boom box.
https://supercell.com/en/safe-and-fair-play/

If only they monitored the say top 10 and employed people that was actually interested in fair play. Instead anyone on the leaderboard is tarred a cheater because no one trusts supercell to enforce their own rules.
They don’t have the interest or will to do anything useful about it. Luckily it affects a tiny percentage of their player base and they profit from it.

Let’s see who they ban based on your reports, you did report all this cheating? Let us know what response you got please.

I set my own rules in life, supercell makes their rules, I enforce my rules...


Isn't it a ToS violation to discuss support reponses?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 11, 2019, 09:10 PM
Yes it is but do we count the response I got as support 🤪 a company stifling bad feedback will wither, by highlighting all these problems in a forum that is no longer answerable to supercell then we are helping. Anyway they would never guess it was me, I think I disguised my forum name from my in game name quite well no? 🤪

But seriously tos just gives a company a legal out to do what they want, hopefully they use their discretion but if not then my partner is going to be much happier 🙂


Edit seems it isn’t but i think it was bannable on the forum for forum users when sc ran it. Of course if supercell wanted to ban me or anyone then they could. It isn’t just their ball, it is their pitch, stadium, city and boom beach world 🙂
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: MinionsWeb on Feb 11, 2019, 09:51 PM
IIRC Bak had banned (sent to the corner) a few forumers in the old days for discussing support responses.
And I am just following in my black and white commentary earlier in the thread.
Honestly I believe I am guilty of discussing support responses in the past, damn!
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 11, 2019, 09:54 PM
Bad MinionsWeb 😱🙂
Get on this thread for your punishment 🤪
https://boombeachforum.com/off-topic/ban-the-person-above-you-again!!-37348/
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 11, 2019, 09:59 PM
If Supercell wanted to have a measure of control of the discussion surrounding their game, they should have an official forum.

It seems pretty clear that they dont care, so I dont see how any discussion here on a privately run forum should have any bearing. Their CMs couldn't be bothered to keep up with official channels, I highly doubt they are secretly monitoring private channels now!

Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 11, 2019, 10:03 PM
If I get banned then it will show supercell still loves us 💕 🙂
IDST 🤪
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 11, 2019, 10:07 PM
Swap the word team for TF. I was just pointing out an example of how to get around the team collusion accusation. Chinese team must be the top keyword in the thread at this point.

 
Sure the pool is larger. However, if the 50 best aren’t attacking each other and share every attack and defense among themselves, it’d be pretty hard to penetrate. Attack just one and 50 alter their defense. Lose to one and 50 have the solution to your defense. Unlimited free practice attacks on each other. The advantage would be quite significant.

So when one member of the top 50 is through how would the new member be admitted? Sure wouldn’t be done by a scoring system. It’d be a political decision. After some time there would be friction and feelings then we would end up where we are now. Teams larger than a single TF that use the rules to their advantage. This is kinda how everything always has worked in the world. Boom is a world with a human element that they have figured out how to use.

As for modifying code or hardware, hax, stealing, intentionally misleading of others... It’s universally wrong. Buying accounts used to bother me but the player still needs to execute. Sharing accounts is the worst. It happens in every game and it is well... I use a lot of bad words about it.

I’m not an Angry, I tried it, just wasn’t for me. Too much going on.


You're still just making strawman arguments. No one has called using regular game mechanics of forming TFs and sharing replays, cheating.

The practice of paying for skips, denial of attacks through medic holding, etc are clearly attempts to manipulate the game match-making. Which are clearly violations of ToS and an abuser of Fair Play. Thats not "using the rules to their advantage" as you put it, thats breaking the rules.

Arguing that all the top players do it doesn't make it acceptable.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: newstudent on Feb 11, 2019, 10:54 PM
So is paying for skips your only problem? How do you propose one deal with or prove that? We have to be a tad honest with the fact that people willing to pay a third party are probably paying SC a heck of a lot more.

Strawman position would call for building of a wall to stop red envelopes. Unrealistic arguement to avoid the initial premises and conclusion presented. Describing the actual reality of teams larger than a single TF is pretty far from a strawman position. That is where we truly are. It’s not an opinion or feeling. We have large teams that are atop the leaderboards. Feel like I’m talking to megacrab again.

Where exactly in the tos does it say you can only attack to win? Medic attacks banned somewhere in the tos that I missed? Your definition of vp manipulation would call into consideration every player that presses attack. Or every player that beaches their hq because they hit the wall. I tried to find the bit in tos about only attacking to win.

We aren’t permitted to manipulate the physical game, not the game played. Can’t foul with the participants, structure, or the surroundings. We are permitted to play the participants, within the parameters provided. Maybe I’m turning into megacrab.

I had to check before adding this part. I don’t see in the tos a ban of professional gamers either. Gaming is business now. Sponsorship and scholarships are offered for this stuff in 2019. So how do red envelopes actually violate the tos?

I dislike the whole ordeal, I am megacrab now defending the indefensible, but it’s not against the tos.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 12, 2019, 06:42 PM
Let us know if you have trouble understanding any parts of this.

The following restrictions apply to the use of the Service:
..You agree that you will not, under any circumstances:...Your strawman was bringing up forming a TF of the top players, arguing that cant be cheating because it is part of the game and then acting like you had refuted the accusations of cheating.
Here is another definition for you,
A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Orrscores on Feb 12, 2019, 08:51 PM
I'm curious what your name was on the old forum new student?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: newstudent on Feb 12, 2019, 11:05 PM
I was newstudent in the old forum, wow, fortnite, evony, a bunch more and probably tinder. I stopped using the other forum because people still couldn’t comprehend the difference between magic accounts and spawning a base that is 10 xp levels higher. Even after Decoverly’s presentation which SC even acknowledged.

I presented not one, but two sound arguments from analogy. Break down each premise and conclusion individually. They are true and sound. What we do have though with the edited version of tos is an example of strawman. We can’t use the account to sell Avon or hold a SC tournament without an agreement. Not we can’t be compensated for playing the game. If it were SC would ban them. I’m guessing that the win trading portion is what I’m suppossed to be made aware of. The beaching of hq? Let’s call it cheating. But wouldn’t the other individual have to do it also for there to be a trade? And would every beached hq then be in violation if their opponent did the same? I don’t know how I made anything seem like I refuted the cheating when it still hasn’t been identified. What they do sucks. But, just because we don’t like something doesn’t make it a violation. Losing intentionally isn’t manipulation of the game. That’s what the medic nonsense and beaching is. If it were, SC would ban them.

I only signed up for the new forum because the posts you all make are blocked to vistors and so to read them I signed up. Thank you all for the interaction. I’ll return to lurking.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 12, 2019, 11:21 PM
Posts blocked to guests? They shouldn’t be, I just logged out and cleared my cache and I can see them. If you can provide anymore info on this it would be appreciated.

Regarding lurking feel free to participate on any thread. This one is fairly controversial with strong opinions on all sides but your input has been interesting and welcome.

It is good to talk, we all can learn from other points of view, thanks for yours 👍🙂
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 14, 2019, 03:55 PM

I presented not one, but two sound arguments from analogy. Break down each premise and conclusion individually. They are true and sound. What we do have though with the edited version of tos is an example of strawman. We can’t use the account to sell Avon or hold a SC tournament without an agreement. Not we can’t be compensated for playing the game. If it were SC would ban them. I’m guessing that the win trading portion is what I’m suppossed to be made aware of. The beaching of hq? Let’s call it cheating. But wouldn’t the other individual have to do it also for there to be a trade? And would every beached hq then be in violation if their opponent did the same? I don’t know how I made anything seem like I refuted the cheating when it still hasn’t been identified. What they do sucks. But, just because we don’t like something doesn’t make it a violation. Losing intentionally isn’t manipulation of the game. That’s what the medic nonsense and beaching is. If it were, SC would ban them.

You again are only talking about normal parts of gameplay under the pretense of discussing cheating. No one (except yourself) has called HQ beaching, cheating.

Do you honestly not understand how paying a group of other players to continually drop medics on your base, with the goal of preventing actual opponents from attacking you violates TOS? Do you really not see how that "intentionally abuses or goes against the design of the Service"?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Feb 14, 2019, 04:03 PM
Perhaps I am not using the search function correctly, but I couldn't find any posts by user newstudent in the archive. Certainly not in Decoverly's dissertation on Spawn Rates. Did you post under another name at that time?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 17, 2019, 11:23 AM
Vp update
Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521,1530, 1548, 1567, 1585, 1602, 1621, 1642, 1663, 1681, 1701, 1708, 1723, 1739, 1759, 1781, 1798, 1816, 1829, 1887, 1908

A huge jump in vp in the last couple of days. Many vp pushers do not kill the Hammerman bases and resource bases to give them a timely boost on vp. I suspect this may explain the jump from 1829 to 1887. Other things to consider is I may have looked at his vp on its lowest point on one day and got its highest point the next but this jump is too big for that I think.

So in a month (28 days) this player has went from 1376 (more as I didn’t catch first vp) to 1908. At least 532 vp gained. An average of at least 19vp every day.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Feb 17, 2019, 01:28 PM
Had put my primary account on ice for the past year in order to play out my secondary account.  I just started using my primary again in late January (right before the January megacrab).  I started at 445 vp.  Now about a month later, I am at 920 vp.  That is an increase of about 475 vp in a month.  I am not cheating.  I am still holding my resource bases in reserve.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 17, 2019, 01:33 PM
Fair enough, so would you go as far to say that 19vp per day at vp levels 1300 to 1900 is normal?
As I said before cheating or not, I find this very interesting.


Edit it would be great if you could update us on how your vp increases etc as there isn’t much info out there that I can find on pvp nowadays.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Feb 17, 2019, 04:44 PM
I would say “what is normal?”.

I woke up this morning at 7 am with 898 VP, cleared my map and was at 919 vp.  Some might view this as a 21 VP increase in just 12 hours.  But it was not.  I ended last nights raiding at about 7pm with a clear map and 913 vp.  In 12 hours I had lost 13 VP to invasions and 2 to raids.  The 2 VP lost to raids was gone, but I had 8 PvP invasions and 5 NPC invasions.  I had 21 vp on my map and had lost 15 vp, so in that twelve hour period I had a net gain of 6 vp, not 21.

We often talk about storing resources in bases on our map.  In a similar connotation, I view each invasion as “stored VP” on my map.  So long as you can beat that base you are getting VP back, so the VP is merely “stored” until you choose to recover it.  NPC invasions are VP neutral as you lose 1 VP and gain one upon beating the NPC.  PvPs are your one means for advancing VP and Raids are how your VP regresses.

Thought of another way: (# of PvP Invasions since last map clear) - (# of Raids since last map clear) == (Net VP growth since last map clear).  Presuming of course you can beat all bases on your map.  If you keep your map clear at least daily, you will experience wide swings in VP as VP is lost to invasions and VP is reclaimed and (hopefully) gained as you clear those invasions. 

Your measurement methodology has no way of accounting for “stored VP”.  “Stored VP” is a crucial missing component in what you are trying to do with these measurements as it is in fact VP that the player has in their possession, they simply have not yet “converted” it.

To me basing your analysis on long term measurements (i.e. months) smooths out the bumps that “stored VP” creates in daily measurements.  So to say that someone went up 600 VP in a single month is a more meaningful measurement IMO.  To do this in the absence of any raids would require  300 PvP invasions that were cleared during that month. 

I will base the following on my current experience, again I am not including raids in this base analysis: Doing two map clears per day, I typically have between 6-8 PvPs on my map at the beginning of a map clearing session.  So let’s say the average is 7 PvPs for each map clearing session, so 14 PvPs per day.  Given 30 days in a month at an average of 14 VP gain per day will yield 420 VP in a month.

Now if this player were keeping the map clear of PvPs constantly in order to keep his % Invasion Chance higher, keeping the daily event on his map as long as possible (thus increasing the PvP Invasion Chance), and keeping a couple of NPCs lying around to further skew the PvP Invasion Chance, such advances might just be possible even at that VP, especially if you had a good base design, plenty of ice to deter attackers, and the skill to raid ice bases with little offensive statue help.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 17, 2019, 05:06 PM
Ah but 600vp is not equal to 300 pvp wins as each spawn is -1vp therefore 600vp is 600 wins and is also assuming you never lose vp by your base being defeated.

To so rarely have your base destroyed at this vp is highly unlikely but hey I have taken note of his “unbeatable” base design... i don’t think it will work so well for me since I knew how to beat it a month ago but strangely wasn’t able to ever attack it of which I am not alone as others have also noticed this strange phenomenon but all above board as supercell has taken no action. All good 👍🙂

I would really be interested in you sharing your vp rise/push as I really don’t see much posted that is current.


Edit my reply needs reworked from your edits, will get back to you soon 🙂
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Feb 17, 2019, 05:16 PM
So let’s revisit the math I laid out:

I will base the following on my current experience, again I am not including raids in this base analysis: Doing two map clears per day, I typically have between 6-8 PvPs on my map at the beginning of a map clearing session.  So let’s say the average is 7 PvPs for each map clearing session, so 14 PvPs per day.  Given 30 days in a month at an average of 14 VP gain per day will yield 420 VP in a month.

Notice that I only gave credit for 1 vp growth per PvP (14 PvP == 14 VP).  So the math holds.  Did you only read part of what I wrote before responding?  So yes, I would again say:


Now if this player were keeping the map clear of PvPs constantly in order to keep his % Invasion Chance higher, keeping the daily event on his map as long as possible (thus increasing the PvP Invasion Chance), and keeping a couple of NPCs lying around to further skew the PvP Invasion Chance, such advances might just be possible even at that VP, especially if you had a good base design, plenty of ice to deter attackers, and the skill to raid ice bases with little offensive statue help.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Feb 17, 2019, 05:51 PM
445 to 920 is a whole different ball game
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Feb 17, 2019, 06:17 PM
Perhaps, but the bottom line is this: the only way to gain vp is through a PvP invasion.  If a player can increase VP by 600 vp in a month then they had to have the invasions to support that advancement.  It is mathematically possible to do this.  Probability is a completely different thing.

So how,could someone do this?  How do they balance invasions to raids to get such a positive VP progression?  Well I think we have already answered that, haven’t we?  If I were a part of a team that could be online 24-7, keeping the base loaded I could have 0 raids per day, right?  As I recall so long as someone is in the base... not the map but the actual base you cannot be attacked even outside of the 4 hour shield, right?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Feb 20, 2019, 12:17 AM
Update:

Last Night (Monday 2/18) at 7pm I concluded my map clear with a clear map and 936 vp.  Tonight at 7pm, 24 hours later I again have a clear map and 954 vp.  An 18 vp gain in 24 hours.  I did this with 2 raiding sessions spaced 12 hours apart.

It broke down like this: I had 20 PvP invasions and 2 raids during that 24 hour period.  So using the formula (PvP invasions) - (raids) == (net vp): 20 - 2 == 18 which matches the actual vp increase I experienced.

So from a spawn perspective, I do think that you can get enough spawns to support a 19+ vp increase in a single day.  Raids are the big wild card.  Remember I did this with two map clearing session.  After 12 hours of invasions, the invasion chance gets pretty low.  Keeping a map clear and thus the invasion chance higher could yield even more spawns.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 25, 2019, 12:19 AM
From discord
Orochimaru
These 3 Chinese guys I know for sure are cheaters I had very hard time trying to get an attack in some for many many hours

Alex
@Ryan @Orochimu the most hard is #5 I was able to attack him 1 time per hour, I clicked 3 times per second all these  hours

Ryan
@Alex yeah #5 is the only one not on Z team so I guess he/she has the support of the entire L team trying to show up the Z guys
That account has been climbing like nothing I've ever seen

Alex
I spend 5 hours and have to boost more statues to raid him from first attempt
I clicked every second(!) for 5 hours (!) @RickC is it normal? I watched 3 firms during this dummy work

RickC
Players are open to attack after 4 hours of being online. If this is what you mean.

Alex
Man, GL players spend this 4 hours limit after reseting the timer
This was not legal limit
@RickC I play  9 month on VP higher than 1400 aka "азамат", there is no way to have legal 4 hours limit at the end of the day
You spend it during the attacks on you map during the day

RickC
I have been receiving messages in regards to the leaderboards and we spent a day looking into it. From what we see, these players are being attacked at a level that seems the same as other players and we could not see any current issues with it. We have also put in more trackers for the next update to be able to look even more closely at this “potential” issue.

This will take some time to investigate after we have this data, but trust that If we find anything suspicious, we will deal with it.

Thank you

GreenRhino33
Do your measurements see what was used in each attack and the average duration?

Alex
@RickC all what we really need is "interrupting" during any attack in any phase
These players block their bases on challenges and bots, because then you are attacking other bot or players nobody can interrupt your attack

Fares
cheaters players can be detected by a simple screenshot ( methode used by many game), or other method of detection, but what to do against the groups of players who attack each other with medic etc ...

Alex
they used bots on the map and challenges in the chat
They dont attack real players
@RickCFeel free to message me or Bismark or somebody else from Angry Family for more explanation
Have to go offline, @RickC please chat with us (GL players), we can explain how to catch such players

Yallik
@RickC we recently learned that SC has the ability to track what types of troops are being used for every attack.

Hmm. Bet that ability, applied judiciously, could be used to ferret out the cheaters.

Hint: All Medic is not a viable troop composition. 🤣

Pangtastic
@RickC a friend and I have tested and proved two ways which you can prevent your base being attacked.  I can share videos of them with you.  One way circumvents the 30 minutes you can attack someone a day and another method extends the 4 hours a day which you can’t be attacked.

Macaroniville
Spoken by a fair play player. Who has a lot of experience with playing against the cheaters of BB. Take advantage of this Rick.

Northern Rage
Agreed, Pang knows his stuff 100%

Orochimaru
Agreed as well. @pangtastic and @Bismarck can really help you out @RickC in fixing these annoying and very unfair aspects of the game
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Feb 25, 2019, 01:11 AM
I'm not at the level where that occurs, struggling to get to 1200, but thanks crow for sharing, but gives more credence to what you were doing
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 25, 2019, 08:39 AM
Further Discord Update

Bismarck
I am the friend @Pangtastic referred to above.  Those in the VP pushing community on Telegram know me to be one of the most committed, thorough, and prolific investigators of unfair practices on the VP leaderboards and data analyst.

Following up on a tip from a third party, yesterday I began performing tests of possible methods to unfairly extend the 4 hour protection time of yourself or another player, as it is well known in the community that many top VP players appear to be online considerably longer than 4 hrs per day.

The results were absolutely stunning.  Not only did I prove the existence of the two exploits listed above, I also was able to establish that it is in fact remarkably easy and anybody can do it.

I created the videos @pangtastic mentioned in order to make @RickC and Supercell aware of the problem, then I blew the whistle on the whole goddamned thing.  In my role as an administrator for Global Pushers, part of Hopper Network on Telegram, I publicly announced the existence of these exploits.

Myself, Global Pushers, and Hopper Network all strongly condemn the use of exploits.  We will be naming and shaming those who use them, and if they are not fixed within a reasonable time period to prevent them from being used again, details explaining how to recreate them will be shared publicly in order to force a response

@RickC I strongly urge you to reaffirm your company's commitment to fair play and demonstrate it by taking immediate action to fix these exploits.  I have passed on all the relevent information to @pangtastic and you may liaison with him for the details, or you are welcome to PM me as well and I will be happy to explain further and answer any questions.



RickC
@pangtastic sent friend request to chat with you
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 25, 2019, 01:14 PM
Vp update

Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521,1530, 1548, 1567, 1585, 1602, 1621, 1642, 1663, 1681, 1701, 1708, 1723, 1739, 1759, 1781, 1798, 1816, 1829, 1887, 1908, 1928, 1948, 1976, 1999, 2020, 2047, 2066
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: MinionsWeb on Feb 25, 2019, 02:01 PM
1829 to 1887?58 vp in 1 day?Sure you did not miss 1 or 2 days?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Feb 25, 2019, 02:34 PM
Yup totally sure, think I mentioned it earlier in the thread but vp pushers who have planned well could have kept hammerman bases and or resource bases to give them a boost when vp is harder to get.
There is also the issue that my schedule of checking his vp is not likely to be consistent with his playing schedule so there will be variations day to day.


Edit there are 10 lt hammerman bases, each giving 5vp. Not sure what effect if any they have on spawn rates or if any are “required” but that is potentially 50 stored vp. Then there is resource bases of which you can have 14 each of wood, stone and iron. At least 1 is protected but that is also a lot of stored vp for a good planner.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 05, 2019, 08:16 AM
Vp Update
Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521,1530, 1548, 1567, 1585, 1602, 1621, 1642, 1663, 1681, 1701, 1708, 1723, 1739, 1759, 1781, 1798, 1816, 1829 , 1887, 1908, 1928, 1948, 1976, 1999, 2020, 2047, 2066, 2095, 2125, 2131, 2153, 2173, 2197, 2218, 2235
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Mar 05, 2019, 07:15 PM
Is it happy?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 05, 2019, 07:47 PM
No 🙂


I gotta say that RickC has said that he and the team investigated potential cheating from multiple sources and found no evidence of cheating.

Now I know that on the occasion I met this player I was unable to attack him for a total of 27 hours before I rolled another opponent. This was at a vp level where he should only be getting approximately 14 attacks per day and has a 4 hour safe window. Multiple other players have reported great difficulty in getting the opportunity to attack him.
The stats I post about his vp are daily vp, on average a fairly consistent daily gain of 19 or 20 vp per day. Yes there are outliers but I have never seen someone gain that much vp every day at every vp level for so long.

Yet supercell says everything is above board and completely normal. So I guess he isn’t cheating. I guess we have something to learn from this.

As I said earlier whether he is cheating or not, this is interesting to me. I have had the opportunity to follow a player from 1300ish to soon to be number one.

Roll on Warships 🙂
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Mar 05, 2019, 09:10 PM
The thing is, we dont know what SC considers "cheating".


Is abusing the attack system with medic attacks, or endless Friendly Challenges "cheating"? Or using the normal game mechanics in an unusual way?

I know I would call it cheating. SC could easily change the the way bases are  reserved during attacks to eliminate that type of manipulation but they dont, so not much we can do.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 05, 2019, 09:19 PM
The tos can pretty much make anything a reason the take disciplinary action against a player. Beaching an hq could be considered vp manipulation, accidentally being offensive in a language you don’t even speak, having relatively adult names or descriptions in a game aimed at adults, anything that they deem not to be in the spirit of the tos or game.

So as I said we have something to learn here. I don’t mind rules that are enforced evenly, if medic attacks or using a mechanical aid to constantly be online is acceptable then fine at least we know. But if these things are not fair then supercell needs to clamp down on it, not turn a blind eye...


I see no ships...


Don’t spout stuff about fair play if you don’t mean it, it just makes you look weak, foolish and annoys your customers who play fair while seeing those around them play unfairly with impunity supercell.


Edit does the pattern of vp gain I posted seem normal? Not theoretically possible if the planets are in alignment and pigs have evolved to fly in some alternate reality but to gain this amount of vp every day consistently when it appears no one else can do the same. I know I could have beaten his base when I met him, I am not a great player but all these global players who are great can’t do it. Why doesn’t everyone not just copy his base and statues if it is giving such an advantage? Has he got a new sort of magic account that through no fault of his own allows him to have 20 more player bases spawn every day or have 20 fewer raids per day than everyone else?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Mar 07, 2019, 10:24 PM
It has taken me over a week to go from 1190 to 1205 VP - it is just not possible even being an ice queen (I still beat them) to go up 20-30 VP a day - the number of invasions does not equate to the raids where you can easily make that much VP
I'm clearing my map all day long the past week but the raids almost outweigh the VP gains on PvP
He is most definitely being "protected"
Now at 1205 VP - I guarantee by the time I log back on tomorrow I'll be back down to 1190 if not lower
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 08, 2019, 02:52 AM
That is weird.  I am right behind you at 1141 vp.  My account increased by 13 vp just today.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Mar 08, 2019, 03:09 AM
Come back tomorrow with your current VP, looking at your vp after a raiding session is so much different.
Record your vp gains daily over a week and report back
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: MinionsWeb on Mar 08, 2019, 05:23 AM
went from 1203 this morning to 1221 as soon as I get this last base to be offline.
It is not that large every day, but I have gone up about 100 vp in 14 days
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 08, 2019, 08:54 AM
Yes that is in a normal range minionsweb 7vp per day.
Capt Nasty 13vp In one day is good going but can you achieve that every day for a month? That would equate to you going from your current 1141 to 1544vp.
Everyone can have good days but everyone has bad days and over time you settle out. If someone is having constant good days then something is going on. Fair or not it is unusual and warrants further scrutiny, much like the magic accounts.

No one wants the magic account situation to appear again. If someone is getting an unfair advantage over other players then it needs to be addressed. No one had proof of magic accounts, only theories and suspicions. Supercell took an age to acknowledge a clear problem they were completely resistant to addressing it. This is a worse and much more long standing issue. Magic accounts was an accidental advantage, no fault of the players and who can blame them for going on the ride. However this is deliberate unfair practices on a huge scale, practices that have been going on for a long time.
On the plus side there are conversations going on between supercell and knowledgeable players about this issue which is progress.

Anyway it would be great if people could record their vp data. It doesn’t have to be daily, it could just be every week or change of tribes like I do on the stairway to heaven thread. There is a lack of available/accessible vp data to establish(well give us a better idea) what is normal. 20vp per day, every day is not normal.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 08, 2019, 01:27 PM
Crow, 10-14 VP per day is not unusual for me.  I do not go backwards and I do not stall out.  The low end for me seems to be around 7 or 8 in a day if there is a lot of raids.  High end is around 18-19 vp in a 24 hour period.

Fritzelly, the 13 vp gain reflects the difference between my VP after my Wednesday night map clear and last nights map clear, so it was a parity comparison.

Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 08, 2019, 02:03 PM
Cool capt. What that demonstrates is that you are getting 10 to 14 more successful pvp raids than you are losing to raids on your base which is doable at your vp and even my vp with ice (1300). There is however a limit to how many pvp spawns you can get in a day. Your radar chances of spawn every 19 minutes. So if you are clearing every 19 minutes then that is your max from your offense. Obviously the RNG nature of spawning provides big variations and between pvp and npc. Also as you know the higher you go the better the players and bases you are up against. Also the higher you go in vp the more times you are spawned on other people’s maps therefore the more chances you lose vp.

As we know there is no base that cannot be defeated by the top players. At 1500+vp you are definitely in the territory of the top players.
So how do certain people gain 20vp per day, every day if their offense opportunities are the same as everyone else? They defend. But no base is completely defendable so they must be getting beat the same as all the other top players. But there is the inconsistency, either their base is not getting beaten or they are spawning significantly (20) more opponents than most people. It could be a combo effect but then it is twice as weird not less weird.

I had direct experience of not being able to attack this player for 27 hours, others have reported similar situations...often. Therefore it is very likely the increase in vp is as a result of other players not getting the opportunity to attack his base with a view to killing his base. That is not in the spirit of the game and should be acted upon by supercell.


Edit again I encourage people to regularly record their vp and post it so we can better understand the game. The more detail the better but whatever you are comfortable with is fine.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Mar 08, 2019, 03:20 PM
Posting my VP wouldn't show much as I am not pushing.   
Seems there are only a hand full of active user here anymore, so it doesn't seem like a great place to gather data.

That being said, I for one wholeheartedly agree that something fishing seems to be going on at the top. Ricky said they checked it out and everything was on the up and up.

Which seems to leave 2 possibilities; SC is incompetent to properly investigate their own game, or they feel that manipulating game mechanics with a large team is acceptable.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Mar 09, 2019, 12:29 AM
Managed to gain 1 VP to 1206 today - 13 raids (4 people decided no), what can you do???


Had 3 or 4 really tough boosted ice bases so had to wait for a boost which probably affected what could have been a VP gain but that would have been the difference of probably just 3 or 4 extra VP
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 09, 2019, 12:34 AM
VP with clear map last night: 1,141.  VP tonight with clear map 1,154 vp.  13 vp gain in the past 24 hours.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Yallik on Mar 09, 2019, 01:24 AM
In the 1200s, I gained 1 or 2 two VP/day usually.

There was one Tribe cycle that for some reason benefited me strangely. It was a bad cycle for everybody else, so I can't explain it, but during that cycle I was gaining ~5 VP/day.

10+ at that VP you're talking about? Freakish.

Enough to make you wonder.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 09, 2019, 01:55 AM
I think it is how I am playing to benefit my spawn %
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Mar 09, 2019, 11:20 AM
VP with clear map last night: 1,141.  VP tonight with clear map 1,154 vp.  13 vp gain in the past 24 hours.

Give me my vp back
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 10, 2019, 04:37 AM
VP with clear map last night 1,154.  VP tonight with clear map 1,163.  9 vp gain in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 11, 2019, 02:26 AM
VP with clear map last night 1,163.  VP tonight with clear map 1,168.  5 vp gain in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Mar 11, 2019, 03:29 PM
Looks like a clearly declining trend.
I predict by this time next week, you will be losing 15 VP per day!
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 11, 2019, 03:51 PM
Not sure about that... either way.  Weekends are typically brutal. After my morning session today I am at +7.  So it is all about raid activity until my evening session.  The evening session is typically the more fruitful for me due to having more time to milk my boost.

I know that things should slow down at some point but I keep hoping it is not now.

I did get hung up with two ice queens this weekend (8&9 ice respectively... all boosted) that I could not clear (3 SBs with 1 above the HQ).  It is very inusual for me to get a base that I cannot figure out how to take down. This had an impact on my PvP spawn rates which I believe is part of the driver of the dip too.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 12, 2019, 12:44 AM
VP with clear map last night 1,168.  VP tonight with clear map 1,177.  9 vp gain in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 13, 2019, 12:39 AM
VP with clear map last night 1,177.  VP tonight with clear map 1,187.  10 vp gain in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 13, 2019, 12:53 AM
Nice capt 👍🙂 are you all offense or do you have some ice?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 13, 2019, 01:00 AM
Nice capt 👍🙂 are you all offense or do you have some ice?
2 Ice MPs.  6 GBE, 2 Red MPs.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Mar 13, 2019, 10:36 PM
My VP is crashing - now at 1200. Only had 4 Merc invasions in 24 hours and  11 NPC - 4 Mercs!!!!!
How the hell am I supposed to increase VP
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 13, 2019, 10:50 PM
Fritz, do you want to tey what I am doing?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Mar 13, 2019, 11:04 PM
Fritz, do you want to tey what I am doing?

Is tey secret code?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 13, 2019, 11:08 PM
I do not know it is a “secret code”, but I have figured out a way to improve your PvP Spawn Chance.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: fritzelly on Mar 13, 2019, 11:15 PM
Tell me more
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 02:31 AM

Some observations that what I am doing is based on:Morning raid session:
After your morning boosts expire:
Evening raid session:
After your evening boosts expire:
Before the daily event expires or you go to bed:
Next day: wash, rinse, repeat.

I have been using this protocol since November and have experienced reasonably consistent results.  What it does is attempt to give you a more advantageous PvP Invasion Chance.  It is not perfect.  Some days are better than others, but I have a consistent positive VP trend.  Play around with this and pay attention to the Invasion Chance every time you clear a PvP or NPC from your map. 

The other big variable is raids.  This approach does nothing to help you with your raids.  As Crow has said, you have a finite number of invasions you can get in a day and while this approach helps to manage your Invasion Chance; you have to get your base to a place that raids are lower than invasions.

I keep waiting to see where it falls apart.  It takes several days for this protocol to settle in and start producing.  I suspect that there are some adaptive mechanisms in the MM algorithm.

Hope this helps you.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 02:32 AM
VP with clear map last night 1,187.  VP tonight with clear map 1,197.  10 vp gain in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 14, 2019, 07:55 AM
I agree with the capt nasty, good strategy.

 I notice I get significantly less raids with just 2 clearing sessions per day. However I don’t keep any npc spawns on my map, quite a few top players have said just keeping the daily event on your map as long as possible is the optimal situation. Try it and see what works for you though.

Once you are in the 1300s then you see diminishing returns and you should check for spawns more often and the pressure to drop ice increases.
If you do use ice then drop at least 4 and boost them, don’t half heart it, that will take you to 1400+ comfortably.
Have at least one shield gen but never three.

Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 10:24 AM
I used this protocol on my other account that I got to 1,365 vp.  It worked at that vp too, though gains were a little slower.  Retired that account mid-January when it ran out of PP.


Leaving the 3 NPCs during boost sessions is crucial to this protocol.  If you eliminate all NPCs and PvPs your spawn chances (with the daily event present) go to PvP: 17%, NPC: 16%.  At that point it is a toss up whether a spawn is a PvP or NPC.  With the 3 NPCs and no PvPs, spawn chances are 16% and 9% respectively and spawns tend to be PvP (though there is no guarantee).
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Ddixon0420 on Mar 14, 2019, 11:58 AM
Hi Capt, that is basically the same system I use, tho without ice in the 1300 range I only gain about 5 a week. I'll leave the 3 npc's and event but clear pvp's throughout the day. Spent the 1st half of this week trying to drop vp. But I don't have the mentality to leave pvp's on my map! Lol, so its back to the slow upward grind.
 Btw, I recall you describing your strategy when you were in our tf; tho I won't admit that I picked it up from you! Lmao
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 14, 2019, 12:12 PM
I do wonder about the spawning chances.
I assume that in a table of 100 entries, there are x entries for pvp and x1 entries for npc spawns, with the remaining being no spawn. Then every 19 minutes there is an rng 1-100 rolled.
So leaving the daily event and keeping everything clear will result in 17 entries pvp and 14 entries for npc. Giving an overall chance of a spawn of 31%
Keeping 3 npcs will result in 16 pvp and 9 npc entries, giving an overall spawn chance of 25%.
I am sure someone smarter than me can determine if this is good or bad 🙂
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 01:53 PM
I do wonder about the spawning chances.
I assume that in a table of 100 entries, there are x entries for pvp and x1 entries for npc spawns, with the remaining being no spawn. Then every 19 minutes there is an rng 1-100 rolled.
So leaving the daily event and keeping everything clear will result in 17 entries pvp and 14 entries for npc. Giving an overall chance of a spawn of 31%
Keeping 3 npcs will result in 16 pvp and 9 npc entries, giving an overall spawn chance of 25%.
I am sure someone smarter than me can determine if this is good or bad 🙂
This is not about maximizing your overall spawn chance.  It is about improving your PvP spawn chance.

I am getting these spawn % straight from the game.  This info is exposed in the radar building.  With a fully clear map and the daily event, your spawn % are 17% and 14% respectively.  So only a 3% differential.  Keeping 3 NPCs gets you to 16% and 9% respectively a 7% differential, so having three NPCs is better for improving your chance of a PvP spawn.

I don’t know that the overall spawn chance == PvP spawn chance + NPC spawn chance either.  With three NPCs during my raiding session this morning I got 3 PvP spawns and 2 NPC spawns during my three hour boost window.  So 180 minutes in my boost gives me 9 spawn chances.  I got spawns on 5 of those 9 spawn chances... that is a 56% spawn rate and is more than double the 25% you cited.  And I have been getting these type of results with relative consistency for about 4 months.  There is more going on here than meets the eye.  This is not straight probability.

Supercell has already indicated that every time we do not get a spawn during the spawn check the overall spawn chance is increased, but the PvP and NPC spawn chances stay the same.  We got that back info in 2016 straight from the CM Tim.  This seems to indicate that overall spawn chance is a different data element than PvP and NPC spawn chance.  I also suspect that under the covers successful raids increase both overall and PvP spawn chances.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 02:21 PM
Hi Capt, that is basically the same system I use, tho without ice in the 1300 range I only gain about 5 a week. I'll leave the 3 npc's and event but clear pvp's throughout the day. Spent the 1st half of this week trying to drop vp. But I don't have the mentality to leave pvp's on my map! Lol, so its back to the slow upward grind.
 Btw, I recall you describing your strategy when you were in our tf; tho I won't admit that I picked it up from you! Lmao
Hey Thumbs!

This system will not in my experience work if you are clearing throughout the day.  I tried it.  It falls apart as you approach 1300 vp.  There seems to be something that happens to spawns when you are offline.  This protocol specifically applies to doing only two raiding sessions a day and staying off the game as much as possible.  When you are on and off frequently throughout the day it seems to lower spawn chances.  I believe that there is much more going on in the spawn calcs than simple probability.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Ddixon0420 on Mar 14, 2019, 02:42 PM
I'm sure you are correct about my spawn rate being affected by my clearing pvp's throughout the day Capt. I've tried your system with a twist. Think I'll follow your lead and try just the two clearing sessions.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Mar 14, 2019, 03:28 PM
Hey Thumbs!

This system will not in my experience work if you are clearing throughout the day.  I tried it.  It falls apart as you approach 1300 vp.  There seems to be something that happens to spawns when you are offline.  This protocol specifically applies to doing only two raiding sessions a day and staying off the game as much as possible.  When you are on and off frequently throughout the day it seems to lower spawn chances.  I believe that there is much more going on in the spawn calcs than simple probability.

Earlier in this thread you stated you check for spawns every 18 minutes and clear them. How is that not clearing throughout the day?

I would also point out, that you could check every 35 minutes instead with no effect on the spawn chance.


To your larger point, as you said, its not about improving your overall spawn chance, just your PvP chance.

However, it seems your method seeks to only maximize PVP spawn versus NPCs, rather than PVP as an absolute quantity. 17% is greater than 16%.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 04:09 PM
Earlier in this thread you stated you check for spawns every 18 minutes and clear them. How is that not clearing throughout the day?

I would also point out, that you could check every 35 minutes instead with no effect on the spawn chance.

To your larger point, as you said, its not about improving your overall spawn chance, just your PvP chance.

However, it seems your method seeks to only maximize PVP spawn versus NPCs, rather than PVP as an absolute quantity. 17% is greater than 16%.
Where to start with this?  First you do not understand what I wrote.

I said check every 18 minutes during a 3 hour boost window.  Since you are only doing 2 boost sessions in a 24 hour period, you are only checking in during a 6 hour window throughout the day.  That means that for the other 18 hours in the day you are staying off the game as much as possible.

Checking every 18 minutes during your boost session is done so that every spawn check has the highest chance of a PvP spawn.  Checking every 34 minutes would mean that 1 out of every 2 checks will have a lower chance of PvP invasion.

Yes it maximizes PvP spawns versus NPCs, exactly what I have said all along that it does.  That is precisely what you want.  With a 17% chance of PvP spawn, you have a 14% chance of NPC spawn.  A 3% differential.  With 3 NPCs you have a 16% chance of PvP spawn but only a 9% chance of NPC spawn.  A 7% differential.  So you have a 1% lower chance of PvP spawn but you have a 5% lower chance of NPC spawn.  So it is precisely that differential that I am targeting.  The reduction in overall spawn chance is more than offset by the increased likelihood that when a spawn does occur that it will be a PvP.  In other words, I want to optimize the quality of the spawn not the quantity of spawns.  If I have fewer overall spawns, but more of the spawns that I do get are PvP that is a positive thing!


Remember, I am doing this based on my interpretation that the overall spawn chance is a completely separate attribute from the PvP and NPC spawn chances.  This interpretation is partly based on information Supercell has publicly disclosed in the past.  It is also based on my observations from over 3 years of playing.  I feel comfortable with the interpretation because the model that I have built around this seems to hold water.  I can do things now in the game and get predictable results.  If the overall spawn chance is in fact separate as I surmise, then optimizing the differential between PvP spawn chance and NPC spawn chance is the precisely what must be done to impact what type of base you are spawning.  My experiment has consistently bore out this interpretation for the past 4 months.

If this protocol can increase your PvP spawns by just 2-3 per day, that will translate to and additional 10-15 vp per week.  For these guys in higher VP who are struggling to advance, this can play a considerable role in whether a player stalls out or is able to progress.

As I also said earlier, raids are the other part of that equation. VP Gain == PvP spawns - Successful Raids.  This protocol is to manage the lVal of that equation.  We know the potential protocols for managing the rVal (Raids) side of the equation:
For those who do not want to drop ice, then they have to do something else to balance the raids side of the equation of they will stall or regress.  Without ice, your base has to be on point.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 14, 2019, 04:25 PM
Your system makes sense capt 👍
But
Not if it is the way I described as a higher pvp entries will win out as Chaucer has said as pvp and npc is not linked.
But
If you do get an increased chance of spawning if you previously had no spawns then your way will work.
Can you find where Tim said that please?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 04:27 PM
It was on the old forum, so it should be here.  I have never had good luck with the search utility on this forum.  His username was Tim. 


He said something to the effect of “Every time that a spawn check occurs and you do not get a spawn, your chance of a getting a spawn on the next check increases.  Once you get a spawn your chance is reset to the default”.


If I recall correctly this started a discussion of whether this information should be visible.  This lead to a response something along the lines of “This change is not reflected in the radar building’s information page because the increase does not change the PvP or NPC spawn chance”.  This discussion may have occurred in a separate series of threads.


I really paid attention to this because it was such an unusual amount of information about how the game worked compared to Supercells usual coyness.  I felt like this was an important piece of information.  I just recently started to think about what it might tell us.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Ddixon0420 on Mar 14, 2019, 04:27 PM
Yes Chaucer, I did say I clear throughout the day. Like I said I use Capt's method with a twist.I totally clear everything but the 7th stage of event every morning while boosted for op. I'll let 3 npc's spawn and remain all day. Everything else that spawns I'll clear. Most I don't need boost for. If I have 5 pvp's built up before nights end that I can't take unboosted, I'll boost 3 Mp's (Td, Th & Gbe) and clear them. Sometimes I might forget stage 7 altogether but not always.
 I've also claimed that I'm not pushing yet; since I haven't deployed ice. But since I'm trying to encourage pvp spawns then the shoe fits! Lol, I guess I am...
  I am going to try and refrain from clearing all day and just do two sessions . If I pick up more I'll let y'all know.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 14, 2019, 04:52 PM
I haven’t found the reference yet but will keep looking. However I note Tim is from 2014/2015 and while he seems a helpful guy (well before my time) there has been many changes to the game since then and things he has said is out of date and not the case now. For example spawn times used to be every 37 minutes.
Not saying this increased chance of a spawn doesn’t happen now but if we are relying on 4 year old information then your and anyone else’s pvp data is all the more important. I don’t see it as I have gone many hours without a spawn and other times get a glut one after the other.

RNG the best way to hide game mechanics 🙂
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 04:57 PM
A lot has changed.  But when you can take a piece of information, build a hypothesis around it, then test the hypothesis and get expected results; you are validating the information.

We can debate about different interpretations of how we all think the game works, but that is a meaningless philosophical exercise.  Help me either validate or invalidate this hypothesis...
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Artist formerly known as Crows Nest on Mar 14, 2019, 05:05 PM
Good plan capt, what information would you need to validate or at least give it a good shot? If we all look for the same info in the same way then that would be productive.


Maybe a new thread we can post to?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 05:17 PM
I think we have this protocol that I laid out.  It is working for me.  But why?  Am I just getting lucky time and again?  Is there something different in my account?  Is my mental model of how spawn checks work accurate?

I think the question is: can others replicate the result?  This would require others to try.  If this can be replicated on  accounts other than my 2, then we could be onto something.

As for how to manage such an effort?  I don’t know.  I am not a planner/organizer type. 
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Mar 14, 2019, 06:15 PM
My apologizes Capt, I misread about only checking during your boost.

I'll try to explain my point about 18 minutes vs 35 minutes.
Say you check at time 0, spawn/no spawn, clear.
At 18 minutes, either spawn/no spawn.
Check at 35 (before the next chance has come up), clear if it is there.

Then see if the next spawn pops up or not.
This resets the condition to time 0. (PvP cleared, a full 18 minutes until next chance and 35 minutes until you would need to clear before chances are affected).

I too remember the thread from way back that addressed the radar spawn. My recollection is that Tim said they didn't want to have the displayed spawn %chance change, because they thought that would be too confusing to players.

I salute you for your data collection. Always neat to see inside the game mechanics. IMO, it would be really great if the developers themselves knew as much about it as the players.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 08:05 PM
Chaucer,

Checking every 34 minutes would play out like this:
Spawn From t0Check from t0
00
1834
36-
5468
72-
90102
108-
126136
144-
162170
180204
So you end up only checking for a spawn every other spawn cycle.


If you check every 20 minutes you get the following:
Spawn From t0Check from t0
00
1820
3640
5460
7280
90100
108120
126140
144160
162180 (boost has ended)
180200 (boost has ended)
The last two checks are after boost has ended.

You can say that after a spawn check occurs, you have up to 13 minutes to check for a spawn. Because you need to clear that spawn and be offline before the scan occurs.

I too seem to recall that there was also concern over the potential for confusion.  As I recall, that specific concern was centered around having the Spawn Chance, PvP Spawn Chance, and NPC Spawn Chance all visible.  Essentially it would expose a non-intuitive technical implementation detail.  So I think there was some back and forth and several points were made.  Kind of like (paraphrased):

Forumers: “We think you should expose that info to us so we know what is going on”
Tim: “It wouldn’t make sense because what is displayed in game is not what is changing”
Forumers: “Then show the spawn chance too!”
Tim: “We are concerned that would be confusing...”
Forumers: “Wah!  But I want it NOW!”
Tim: <Crickets Chirping>

That is how I recall the gist of that discussion
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Castle Grayskul on Mar 14, 2019, 09:19 PM
Ill start using caps method..i have an account sitting at 1110 as we speak..my only concern is that you have a morning and evening boost, at my vp i dont have to boost to clear my PVPs, so will this change the method? I double dip the ops in my tf. And i dont have ice down.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 14, 2019, 09:38 PM
Not a problem, just time box yourself to 3 hours per session.  I have no reason to believe that boosts affects spawns.  But let’s see how this plays out.



Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 15, 2019, 03:00 AM
VP with clear map last night 1,197.  VP tonight with clear map 1,207.  10 vp gain in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Chaucer on Mar 15, 2019, 06:38 PM
18minute method has you checking right after each spawn chance and clearing the base immediately.
35 minute method has you waiting almost until the second spawn chance, clear the first and immediately clear the second. So some of the spawns are on your map longer, but none are still present when the time is up, so do not negatively affect the %.


Assumptions:

Get a spwan at every opportunity.

Needing to check in less is desirable.

Spawns can all be cleared in under 1 minute. Of course if using Tmeds, that would require checking in sooner to have time to clear the base.

Here is the relevant thread from Tim

https://boombeachforum.com/general-discussion/img-src'httpsforum-content-supercell-comimagesiconsicon14-png'-alt'thumbs-up'-tw/msg121903/#msg121903
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 16, 2019, 01:51 AM
VP with clear map last night 1,207.  VP tonight with clear map 1,218.  11 vp gain in 24 hours.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Castle Grayskul on Mar 16, 2019, 01:57 AM
Cap, how many defends are you getting on average per 24 hours?
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 16, 2019, 02:26 AM
Grey,

I am getting about 4-5 defends per day and 6-7 raids per day.
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: Castle Grayskul on Mar 16, 2019, 03:51 AM
+5 vp today using caps method..but im being raided 9 to 12 times a day..i figure ill top out at around 1250 top 1270
 4 to 5 defends a day is what will make the difference in our vp gain. Thats why i cant match the 10+ vp gain days
Title: Re: Cheating?
Post by: CaptNasty on Mar 17, 2019, 02:20 AM
VP with clear map last night 1,218.  VP tonight with clear map 1,230.  12 vp gain in 24 hours.

6 raids, 18 PvP invasions.