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Poll

If you came across a player that you were 99.9% sure was cheating what would you do?

Report them to Supercell
17 (68%)
Nothing
6 (24%)
Other
2 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Author Topic: Cheating?  (Read 1639 times)

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Re: Cheating?
« Reply #60 on: Feb 17, 2019, 01:33 PM »
Fair enough, so would you go as far to say that 19vp per day at vp levels 1300 to 1900 is normal?
As I said before cheating or not, I find this very interesting.


Edit it would be great if you could update us on how your vp increases etc as there isn’t much info out there that I can find on pvp nowadays.
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2019, 02:01 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
1️⃣👥💕🆕💥🏝 - RIP Brian Bolda

Offline CaptNasty

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #61 on: Feb 17, 2019, 04:44 PM »
I would say “what is normal?”.

I woke up this morning at 7 am with 898 VP, cleared my map and was at 919 vp.  Some might view this as a 21 VP increase in just 12 hours.  But it was not.  I ended last nights raiding at about 7pm with a clear map and 913 vp.  In 12 hours I had lost 13 VP to invasions and 2 to raids.  The 2 VP lost to raids was gone, but I had 8 PvP invasions and 5 NPC invasions.  I had 21 vp on my map and had lost 15 vp, so in that twelve hour period I had a net gain of 6 vp, not 21.

We often talk about storing resources in bases on our map.  In a similar connotation, I view each invasion as “stored VP” on my map.  So long as you can beat that base you are getting VP back, so the VP is merely “stored” until you choose to recover it.  NPC invasions are VP neutral as you lose 1 VP and gain one upon beating the NPC.  PvPs are your one means for advancing VP and Raids are how your VP regresses.

Thought of another way: (# of PvP Invasions since last map clear) - (# of Raids since last map clear) == (Net VP growth since last map clear).  Presuming of course you can beat all bases on your map.  If you keep your map clear at least daily, you will experience wide swings in VP as VP is lost to invasions and VP is reclaimed and (hopefully) gained as you clear those invasions. 

Your measurement methodology has no way of accounting for “stored VP”.  “Stored VP” is a crucial missing component in what you are trying to do with these measurements as it is in fact VP that the player has in their possession, they simply have not yet “converted” it.

To me basing your analysis on long term measurements (i.e. months) smooths out the bumps that “stored VP” creates in daily measurements.  So to say that someone went up 600 VP in a single month is a more meaningful measurement IMO.  To do this in the absence of any raids would require  300 PvP invasions that were cleared during that month. 

I will base the following on my current experience, again I am not including raids in this base analysis: Doing two map clears per day, I typically have between 6-8 PvPs on my map at the beginning of a map clearing session.  So let’s say the average is 7 PvPs for each map clearing session, so 14 PvPs per day.  Given 30 days in a month at an average of 14 VP gain per day will yield 420 VP in a month.

Now if this player were keeping the map clear of PvPs constantly in order to keep his % Invasion Chance higher, keeping the daily event on his map as long as possible (thus increasing the PvP Invasion Chance), and keeping a couple of NPCs lying around to further skew the PvP Invasion Chance, such advances might just be possible even at that VP, especially if you had a good base design, plenty of ice to deter attackers, and the skill to raid ice bases with little offensive statue help.
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2019, 05:53 PM by CaptNasty »

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #62 on: Feb 17, 2019, 05:06 PM »
Ah but 600vp is not equal to 300 pvp wins as each spawn is -1vp therefore 600vp is 600 wins and is also assuming you never lose vp by your base being defeated.

To so rarely have your base destroyed at this vp is highly unlikely but hey I have taken note of his “unbeatable” base design... i don’t think it will work so well for me since I knew how to beat it a month ago but strangely wasn’t able to ever attack it of which I am not alone as others have also noticed this strange phenomenon but all above board as supercell has taken no action. All good 👍🙂

I would really be interested in you sharing your vp rise/push as I really don’t see much posted that is current.


Edit my reply needs reworked from your edits, will get back to you soon 🙂
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2019, 05:15 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
1️⃣👥💕🆕💥🏝 - RIP Brian Bolda

Offline CaptNasty

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #63 on: Feb 17, 2019, 05:16 PM »
So let’s revisit the math I laid out:

I will base the following on my current experience, again I am not including raids in this base analysis: Doing two map clears per day, I typically have between 6-8 PvPs on my map at the beginning of a map clearing session.  So let’s say the average is 7 PvPs for each map clearing session, so 14 PvPs per day.  Given 30 days in a month at an average of 14 VP gain per day will yield 420 VP in a month.

Notice that I only gave credit for 1 vp growth per PvP (14 PvP == 14 VP).  So the math holds.  Did you only read part of what I wrote before responding?  So yes, I would again say:


Now if this player were keeping the map clear of PvPs constantly in order to keep his % Invasion Chance higher, keeping the daily event on his map as long as possible (thus increasing the PvP Invasion Chance), and keeping a couple of NPCs lying around to further skew the PvP Invasion Chance, such advances might just be possible even at that VP, especially if you had a good base design, plenty of ice to deter attackers, and the skill to raid ice bases with little offensive statue help.
« Last Edit: Feb 17, 2019, 05:35 PM by CaptNasty »

Offline fritzelly

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #64 on: Feb 17, 2019, 05:51 PM »
445 to 920 is a whole different ball game

Offline CaptNasty

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #65 on: Feb 17, 2019, 06:17 PM »
Perhaps, but the bottom line is this: the only way to gain vp is through a PvP invasion.  If a player can increase VP by 600 vp in a month then they had to have the invasions to support that advancement.  It is mathematically possible to do this.  Probability is a completely different thing.

So how,could someone do this?  How do they balance invasions to raids to get such a positive VP progression?  Well I think we have already answered that, haven’t we?  If I were a part of a team that could be online 24-7, keeping the base loaded I could have 0 raids per day, right?  As I recall so long as someone is in the base... not the map but the actual base you cannot be attacked even outside of the 4 hour shield, right?

Offline CaptNasty

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #66 on: Feb 20, 2019, 12:17 AM »
Update:

Last Night (Monday 2/18) at 7pm I concluded my map clear with a clear map and 936 vp.  Tonight at 7pm, 24 hours later I again have a clear map and 954 vp.  An 18 vp gain in 24 hours.  I did this with 2 raiding sessions spaced 12 hours apart.

It broke down like this: I had 20 PvP invasions and 2 raids during that 24 hour period.  So using the formula (PvP invasions) - (raids) == (net vp): 20 - 2 == 18 which matches the actual vp increase I experienced.

So from a spawn perspective, I do think that you can get enough spawns to support a 19+ vp increase in a single day.  Raids are the big wild card.  Remember I did this with two map clearing session.  After 12 hours of invasions, the invasion chance gets pretty low.  Keeping a map clear and thus the invasion chance higher could yield even more spawns.
« Last Edit: Feb 20, 2019, 12:50 AM by CaptNasty »

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #67 on: Feb 25, 2019, 12:19 AM »
From discord
Orochimaru
These 3 Chinese guys I know for sure are cheaters I had very hard time trying to get an attack in some for many many hours

Alex
@Ryan @Orochimu the most hard is #5 I was able to attack him 1 time per hour, I clicked 3 times per second all these  hours

Ryan
@Alex yeah #5 is the only one not on Z team so I guess he/she has the support of the entire L team trying to show up the Z guys
That account has been climbing like nothing I've ever seen

Alex
I spend 5 hours and have to boost more statues to raid him from first attempt
I clicked every second(!) for 5 hours (!) @RickC is it normal? I watched 3 firms during this dummy work

RickC
Players are open to attack after 4 hours of being online. If this is what you mean.

Alex
Man, GL players spend this 4 hours limit after reseting the timer
This was not legal limit
@RickC I play  9 month on VP higher than 1400 aka "азамат", there is no way to have legal 4 hours limit at the end of the day
You spend it during the attacks on you map during the day

RickC
I have been receiving messages in regards to the leaderboards and we spent a day looking into it. From what we see, these players are being attacked at a level that seems the same as other players and we could not see any current issues with it. We have also put in more trackers for the next update to be able to look even more closely at this “potential” issue.

This will take some time to investigate after we have this data, but trust that If we find anything suspicious, we will deal with it.

Thank you

GreenRhino33
Do your measurements see what was used in each attack and the average duration?

Alex
@RickC all what we really need is "interrupting" during any attack in any phase
These players block their bases on challenges and bots, because then you are attacking other bot or players nobody can interrupt your attack

Fares
cheaters players can be detected by a simple screenshot ( methode used by many game), or other method of detection, but what to do against the groups of players who attack each other with medic etc ...

Alex
they used bots on the map and challenges in the chat
They dont attack real players
@RickCFeel free to message me or Bismark or somebody else from Angry Family for more explanation
Have to go offline, @RickC please chat with us (GL players), we can explain how to catch such players

Yallik
@RickC we recently learned that SC has the ability to track what types of troops are being used for every attack.

Hmm. Bet that ability, applied judiciously, could be used to ferret out the cheaters.

Hint: All Medic is not a viable troop composition. 🤣

Pangtastic
@RickC a friend and I have tested and proved two ways which you can prevent your base being attacked.  I can share videos of them with you.  One way circumvents the 30 minutes you can attack someone a day and another method extends the 4 hours a day which you can’t be attacked.

Macaroniville
Spoken by a fair play player. Who has a lot of experience with playing against the cheaters of BB. Take advantage of this Rick.

Northern Rage
Agreed, Pang knows his stuff 100%

Orochimaru
Agreed as well. @pangtastic and @Bismarck can really help you out @RickC in fixing these annoying and very unfair aspects of the game
1️⃣👥💕🆕💥🏝 - RIP Brian Bolda

Offline fritzelly

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #68 on: Feb 25, 2019, 01:11 AM »
I'm not at the level where that occurs, struggling to get to 1200, but thanks crow for sharing, but gives more credence to what you were doing

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #69 on: Feb 25, 2019, 08:39 AM »
Further Discord Update

Bismarck
I am the friend @Pangtastic referred to above.  Those in the VP pushing community on Telegram know me to be one of the most committed, thorough, and prolific investigators of unfair practices on the VP leaderboards and data analyst.

Following up on a tip from a third party, yesterday I began performing tests of possible methods to unfairly extend the 4 hour protection time of yourself or another player, as it is well known in the community that many top VP players appear to be online considerably longer than 4 hrs per day.

The results were absolutely stunning.  Not only did I prove the existence of the two exploits listed above, I also was able to establish that it is in fact remarkably easy and anybody can do it.

I created the videos @pangtastic mentioned in order to make @RickC and Supercell aware of the problem, then I blew the whistle on the whole goddamned thing.  In my role as an administrator for Global Pushers, part of Hopper Network on Telegram, I publicly announced the existence of these exploits.

Myself, Global Pushers, and Hopper Network all strongly condemn the use of exploits.  We will be naming and shaming those who use them, and if they are not fixed within a reasonable time period to prevent them from being used again, details explaining how to recreate them will be shared publicly in order to force a response

@RickC I strongly urge you to reaffirm your company's commitment to fair play and demonstrate it by taking immediate action to fix these exploits.  I have passed on all the relevent information to @pangtastic and you may liaison with him for the details, or you are welcome to PM me as well and I will be happy to explain further and answer any questions.



RickC
@pangtastic sent friend request to chat with you
« Last Edit: Feb 25, 2019, 10:24 AM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
1️⃣👥💕🆕💥🏝 - RIP Brian Bolda

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #70 on: Feb 25, 2019, 01:14 PM »
Vp update

Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521,1530, 1548, 1567, 1585, 1602, 1621, 1642, 1663, 1681, 1701, 1708, 1723, 1739, 1759, 1781, 1798, 1816, 1829, 1887, 1908, 1928, 1948, 1976, 1999, 2020, 2047, 2066
1️⃣👥💕🆕💥🏝 - RIP Brian Bolda

Offline MinionsWeb

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #71 on: Feb 25, 2019, 02:01 PM »
1829 to 1887?58 vp in 1 day?Sure you did not miss 1 or 2 days?
MinionsWeb is DredPir8Roberts - VP1200|GBE42+17+17+17+17+17|PSC71|TD30+13|TH34 - RetiredTurtle! whatsyerexcuse?
⚡Inigo_Montoya⚡ - VP670|GBE40+17+17+17+16|RR49|PSC74|TD31+13|TH29 - Prepare2die
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Re: Cheating?
« Reply #72 on: Feb 25, 2019, 02:34 PM »
Yup totally sure, think I mentioned it earlier in the thread but vp pushers who have planned well could have kept hammerman bases and or resource bases to give them a boost when vp is harder to get.
There is also the issue that my schedule of checking his vp is not likely to be consistent with his playing schedule so there will be variations day to day.


Edit there are 10 lt hammerman bases, each giving 5vp. Not sure what effect if any they have on spawn rates or if any are “required” but that is potentially 50 stored vp. Then there is resource bases of which you can have 14 each of wood, stone and iron. At least 1 is protected but that is also a lot of stored vp for a good planner.
« Last Edit: Feb 25, 2019, 03:17 PM by Artist formerly known as Crows Nest »
1️⃣👥💕🆕💥🏝 - RIP Brian Bolda

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #73 on: Mar 05, 2019, 08:16 AM »
Vp Update
Not noted, 1376,1416,1435, 1462, 1480, 1497, 1521,1530, 1548, 1567, 1585, 1602, 1621, 1642, 1663, 1681, 1701, 1708, 1723, 1739, 1759, 1781, 1798, 1816, 1829 , 1887, 1908, 1928, 1948, 1976, 1999, 2020, 2047, 2066, 2095, 2125, 2131, 2153, 2173, 2197, 2218, 2235
1️⃣👥💕🆕💥🏝 - RIP Brian Bolda

Offline Chaucer

Re: Cheating?
« Reply #74 on: Mar 05, 2019, 07:15 PM »
Is it happy?